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Scott Roush
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Location: Washburn, WI
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Oct, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Composite pattern welded Migration sword.. in progress         Reply with quote

Here is one I'm working on for a forum member. It has been a tough journey thus far with numerous shop changes and a bad choice of weeks to start up the welding of the materials. I'm now a believer that barometric pressure and foul weather can affect forge welding... as I had difficult at every step in this blade. But I'm now feeling good and plan to heat treat today without fear. Anyway.. here are some pictures:





Things were looking good..but then I found some weld flaws that required attention and led to more narrow blade than I wanted. I could have went with this as it was a very beautiful profile.. but it was pushing the edges of what was historically seen in Migration/Angle Saxon sword blades:



So I decided to weld up some straight laminate high carbon for an additional edge bar..now up to 7 bars!





And here is where it is now after welding up the final bar, grinding flats, grinding fuller and just before grinding bevels. This picture is deceptive because there is a quite wide and deep fuller hidden by the pattern and not yet defined by edge bevel grind...



And a casting of the bronze pommel.. which will have raven/god-head figure on one side and wolf/god-head figure on other...


http://www.bigrockforge.com
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Robin Smith




PostPosted: Fri 25 Oct, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice! I can't wait to see it once it comes together fully. What materials do you plan to use for the hilt?

Seems like alot of us have been bitten by the Migration/Vendel period bug recently. I have a project starting in December that I have commissioned for a Vendel period composite hilted sword.

A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Scott Roush
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Location: Washburn, WI
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Oct, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin...

I'm using bronze of my own alloy using local native copper of glacial origin and tin. The pommel and plates will be composed of this. Bone spacers. Probably Lake Superior black oak (diver salvaged and mineralized) and either bone or bronze spacer for the grip. I'm still conceptualizing... but it will be based on Anglo Saxon ring hilts...

http://www.bigrockforge.com
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Robin Smith




PostPosted: Fri 25 Oct, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Roush wrote:
Robin...

I'm using bronze of my own alloy using local native copper of glacial origin and tin. The pommel and plates will be composed of this. Bone spacers. Probably Lake Superior black oak (diver salvaged and mineralized) and either bone or bronze spacer for the grip. I'm still conceptualizing... but it will be based on Anglo Saxon ring hilts...

Awesome! Are you planning on doing an early style free-moving ring, or later molded one peice ring?

Can't wait to see this come together.

A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Scott Roush
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Location: Washburn, WI
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Oct, 2013 7:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin... A free moving ring. Both myself and the customer prefer those types.

I can't wait either... very close to heat treat. And I've got the bone and most of the bronze prepared. Nervous day...

http://www.bigrockforge.com
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Oct, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looking good so far Scott, watching with interest.
"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Bryan Heff




Location: Philadelphia
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Oct, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's great. I had no idea you could add bars of steel to the outer edge of an already welded sword...but I am not a smith so that stands to reason Big Grin

I imagine this is a major over simplification, but after you added that additional bars to widen it, its back into the forge heat it up and its hammered till the metals weld together, basically? I mean, is that basically what occurs with these pattern welded blades?

Just amazing to me...

Keep up the great work, can't wait to see it complete.
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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Oct, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes Bryan... that rig gets covered in flux (20 Mule Team Borax) to protect the surfaces from oxidation/scaling and goes into the fire. Once up to a welding heat, the bars are hammered into the core. Swords like these are sometimes welded up all at once.. the core as well as the edge. But I like to weld up a core first and then do the edges separately. It can all be very difficult to do.. with the bars sliding around, oxidation creating scale between the bars.. so much can go wrong. If all the bars aren't square then they just slip off of each other when you go to hammer them together. The whole process is the most difficult thing I've ever attempted to do... and this is my fifth. Before this I've had two failures and two successes. Fifty percent is not good odds. Hopefully those odds improve with experience.

Unfortunately this sword may also be a failure. I heard a 'ping' when quenching today. It is now in my tempering oven and I haven't yet had the heart to look at it. I will check in the morning. I might end up having a short sword and a dagger. :-(

http://www.bigrockforge.com
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Bryan Heff




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Oct, 2013 3:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Roush wrote:
Yes Bryan... that rig gets covered in flux (20 Mule Team Borax) to protect the surfaces from oxidation/scaling and goes into the fire. Once up to a welding heat, the bars are hammered into the core. Swords like these are sometimes welded up all at once.. the core as well as the edge. But I like to weld up a core first and then do the edges separately. It can all be very difficult to do.. with the bars sliding around, oxidation creating scale between the bars.. so much can go wrong. If all the bars aren't square then they just slip off of each other when you go to hammer them together. The whole process is the most difficult thing I've ever attempted to do... and this is my fifth. Before this I've had two failures and two successes. Fifty percent is not good odds. Hopefully those odds improve with experience.

Unfortunately this sword may also be a failure. I heard a 'ping' when quenching today. It is now in my tempering oven and I haven't yet had the heart to look at it. I will check in the morning. I might end up having a short sword and a dagger. :-(


Thanks for the detailed information Scott. That's what immediately jumped out at me when I was visualizing this process - keeping all the various bars etc in the correct positions and all lined up without them wanting to slide and move. That must be incredibly hard to deal with when you factor in the heat, not like you can just grab it and hold them together or rearrange them easily while red hot.

Hope it did not fail. Good luck!
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Foong Chen Hong




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Oct, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

that's must hard for you to get through, hope it didn't fail and become successful
Descanse En Paz
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Oct, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You're work is consistantly fascinating and beautiful, SR ...

But I'm seriously more interested in your Dha project. It's a far more unusual blade
type to focus on.

Of course, that's just me, eh ? B-)

Keep up the great work !
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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Oct, 2013 7:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Matthew.... The dah has been on hold for bit since commissioned work has to take precedent. But I'm really looking forward to putting the hilt on that. I have some black bamboo to incorporate.

As to this blade... I'm 80% sure that I will have to cut 8" off towards the tip due to a crack that appeared on the edge. I should have enough meat to 'fish mouth' weld the resulting 20" blade.. for what I probably make into a short type M Viking sword. Or perhaps stick with the Migration theme and make a short bladed spatha with organic hilt. Shucks.

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Tim Seaton




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Oct, 2013 8:06 am    Post subject: langsax         Reply with quote

Sorry hear that scott. But 20in blade would make one wicked langsax blade.
Just a thought . good luck !!!!!!!!!!
Much respect
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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Oct, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's official.. I just cut off 8".

Thanks Tim... But it won't work for a langseax. Double edge will be the only choice because of the cross section I have to deal with. Either I will just wad it all up into the pattern weld for the next go.. or I can fish mouth weld the end into a tip for a short double edge sword.... a little Princeling sword.. or short thrusting sword.

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David Lewis Smith




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Oct, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

( Big Old Frowning Face )

Scott and I are working on this together, well, he is doing the work, and I am reaping the rewards.

I did say I was not on a time line.

I have not seen the Dah, that sounds cool too.

Heh, if i were 10 years younger so would my son, lol, and we would have a father and son sword set.

my son likes swords, he just does not love them

David L Smith
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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Oct, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for your patience David. This was a real disappointment.. but in the end.. it will be better for you. I learn from every blade and every mistake and therefore I strive to improve every blade. This one was just littered with too many issues right from the beginning.

Anyway.... I will get two blades out of it. I notched and welded the longer section and will have a very nice 18" blade. And a short dagger.



I'm leaning towards a fantasy treatment for what is now a short sword... oh I guess we could call it 'mytho-poetic' since I will probably base it Germanic folk lore somehow. But should be a neat little sword.

If somebody has a better idea... please let me know. I believe David will be waiting for the longer version. :-)

http://www.bigrockforge.com
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Oct, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What's in the glass? If that happened to me...I'd have to have a toddy myself! Laughing Out Loud .....Damn the bad luck!.........McM
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Waldemar Duszka




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Oct, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Beautiful patterns Scott !
Ibor
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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Sun 27 Oct, 2013 4:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
What's in the glass? If that happened to me...I'd have to have a toddy myself! Laughing Out Loud .....Damn the bad luck!.........McM


:-) That is my Autumn braggot.. 6 pounds of cap honey from my hive, 6 pounds of pilsner malt, Cascade hops, Belgian Abbey yeast. A strong elixir...

http://www.bigrockforge.com
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Oct, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Damn, that sounds good. Keep us posted on your two projects. The patterns in the steel are fantastic!.....McM
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