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Philip Dyer





Joined: 25 Jul 2013

Posts: 494

PostPosted: Sat 31 Aug, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Bucklers fighting with weapons other than swords         Reply with quote

A week ago, I found at a SCA tourney where we were tasked to fight each other with bucklers and daggers, frankly I got my ass handed to me, I wasn't used to fighting so close and fast. That tourney and readings on ARMA's websites about how bucklers were more of across status shield style than kite or heater shield got me thinking. Are there any manuels and/or texts entailing people fighting using say, bucklers and axes or clubs since swords are a more expensive weapon to have?
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James Moore





Joined: 27 Jan 2011

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sat 31 Aug, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hans Lecküchner: Kunst des Messerfechtens (1482) - BSB Cgm 582
and the Durer Fechtbuch both have messer and buckler.

I expect there's something probably in Paulus hector Mair, but I cant remember where...
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Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Aug, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well Philip, AFAIK there are no manuscripts which show the use of bucklers with axes, maces, or clubs. There is however (in Talhoffer, I believe) a little bit of buckler and messer, and one image of a dagger in use in the buckler hand, to ward off a second opponent. I have seen other images where men use bucklers with spears and axes, so we know these combos were used, unfortunately we just don't have any surviving instructions as to their use.
Éirinn go Brách
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Sat 31 Aug, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Manuscript miniatures, some dated before the I.33, sometimes show bucklers used with weapons other than swords: cudgel, mace, ax, or spear. Sometimes there are sling and buckler men...
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4136/8514/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4686/11756/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4806/11884/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4724/12505/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5203/16871/


Plenty of other examples of bucklers in the art:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?year=...anuscript=

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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M Boyd




Location: Northern Midlands, Tasmania
Joined: 16 Aug 2013

Posts: 63

PostPosted: Sat 31 Aug, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I recall other weapons being used in Indo-persian traditions. Of course, these were used with the dahl.
I'll try to find where i saw these sources.
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Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
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PostPosted: Sun 01 Sep, 2013 1:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oops I should have said that there are no surviving European texts which describe the use of bucklers with other weapons.

M Boyd wrote:
I recall other weapons being used in Indo-persian traditions. Of course, these were used with the dahl.
I'll try to find where i saw these sources.


Yes, book has been published on this subject by a Dr. Manouchehr, called Persian Archery and Swordsmanship. Also iI you look on YouTube, you will find clips of people practicing historical Persian martial arts.

Éirinn go Brách
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Benjamin Floyd II





Joined: 13 Dec 2008

Posts: 82

PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote


Krieg School of Historical Swordsmanship
A HEMA Alliance Affliate
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Charles Neeley




Location: COLORADO
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Likes: 16 pages

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 11 Oct, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry to revive this,
but I recently was studying Irish spear techniques and realized it also answers your question of an alternative buckler + 1 handed weapon.

http://livinghistory.ie/ has some tutorials, specifically this one:

http://tutorials.livinghistory.ie/Home/irish-...mbat-guide

Fáilte!

C
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Ben Coomer




Location: Colorado
Joined: 06 Sep 2011

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Sat 12 Oct, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for that site, Charles. Been trying to figure out my next weapon, and spear was high on that list.
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