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Isak Krogh




Location: Sweden
Joined: 07 Feb 2012

Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue 27 Aug, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Early grapers         Reply with quote

Hi I have been looking around for evidence of early grapers
I have found two good depictions of pre 1300 ones:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4906/14569/
http://armourinart.com/296/475/

any evidence in text, art, or extant remains is very appreciated!
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Robert B. Marks




Location: Kingston, Ont.
Joined: 04 Feb 2004

Posts: 82

PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug, 2013 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Early grapers         Reply with quote

Isak Krogh wrote:
Hi I have been looking around for evidence of early grapers
I have found two good depictions of pre 1300 ones:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4906/14569/
http://armourinart.com/296/475/

any evidence in text, art, or extant remains is very appreciated!


Sorry, but please forgive my ignorance here - what is a graper?

Robert Marks
Darksword Armory, Inc.
www.darksword-armory.com
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William Swiger




Location: Reston, VA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Likes: 50 pages
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Posts: 443

PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Early grapers         Reply with quote

Robert B. Marks wrote:
Isak Krogh wrote:
Hi I have been looking around for evidence of early grapers
I have found two good depictions of pre 1300 ones:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4906/14569/
http://armourinart.com/296/475/

any evidence in text, art, or extant remains is very appreciated!


Sorry, but please forgive my ignorance here - what is a graper?


This is all I could find - Grapers: lance against the body at the moment of impact, often cited in inventories but which are rarely seen.
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Malcolm A




Location: Scotland, UK
Joined: 22 Mar 2005

Posts: 89

PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I recall seeing this topic included in a TV program and my understanding of what a graper is, is as follows.
A graper was a circular attachment, for want of a better word, that was fitted to a lance which butted against the knights body when the lance was couched under his arm. The graper was positioned against the front of the shoulder/ arm and it "locked" the lance to the knight's body thereby increasing the energy transferred to the target at impact.
If you look for the Mike Loades TV programs "Weapons that made Britain" and in particular Episode 3 about the lance, you will see more about it. Try about 23 minutes into the program.
I believe you can see the program if you access You Tube.

Hope this is of some assistance.

Cheers,
M

It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,276

PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a lance in the Manesse Codex. The plate in front of the hand is the vamplate (avant-plate) and the one behind the hand is a grapper or graper.
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglitData/i...1/256v.jpg

I'm not sure if that's what's being shown in either of the two given examples, as the ring appears far to the rear when couched. Perhaps it's a counterweight to better balance the lance in hand?

An interesting find of a detail in the art, nonetheless.



 Attachment: 64.81 KB
UBH Cpg848 fo256v.jpg


ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
Joined: 16 Nov 2008

Posts: 677

PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From what I understand, a grapper can be metal or leather, it is attached just less than a forearm length from the butt[?] of the lance and, as mentioned above, assists in adding "grip" and spreading/adding the force of impact. Later on used in conjunction with an arret.

I'd say to be safe you're goint to have to couch your lance tighter if it's an earlier period as they were more like a spear (I think) but later became more specialised and so the addition of a ring of leather nailed to the heavier lance woukd help.

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
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Isak Krogh




Location: Sweden
Joined: 07 Feb 2012

Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu 29 Aug, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you look at later fighting manuals they often shorten the lance (grip it further up) to be able to parry an incoming lance strike and reach the opponent when his point has passed.
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