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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
Joined: 15 Apr 2013

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Building a kit around DT5143 long sword         Reply with quote

Hi all,

My first and only sword at this point is the Del Tin 5143 long sword (KoA Link). Instead of just buying any sword/item that suits my fancy I want to first build a period kit / weapon set based around my DT, because it's the one I have! Happy

First question:
Is the DT 5143 really of the 14th c era? Can we tell more specifically where such a sword belongs?

Is it safe to assume that such a long sword would only likely be used by a knight for battle (mostly mounted)? Based on answering these assumptions I want to find out what would be a good arming/side sword, dagger, and then eventually a soft-kit. Armor, too, but that will be a "one day when if I can ever afford it" thing.

I appreciate your responses.
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Augusto Boer Bront
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Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a Oakeshott type XIIIa sword. It was used by the middle of the XIII century to the middle of the XIVth century, but there are examples of this kind of swords used in the 1370's as well.
It could be used from horseback and from foot as well, is I (1,72m tall and weighting 55 kilos, so a pretty weak guy) wielded the same model and the manoeuvrability is exeptionally good.
So you have quite a wide range of periods that you could do.
The choice is yours =).

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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
Joined: 15 Apr 2013

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Augusto Boer Bront wrote:
That's a Oakeshott type XIIIa sword. It was used by the middle of the XIII century to the middle of the XIVth century, but there are examples of this kind of swords used in the 1370's as well.
It could be used from horseback and from foot as well, is I (1,72m tall and weighting 55 kilos, so a pretty weak guy) wielded the same model and the manoeuvrability is exeptionally good.
So you have quite a wide range of periods that you could do.
The choice is yours =).


Wow that's much more room to maneuver with than I expected!

I was thinking of getting the popular windlass arming sword type VIX as my next sword purchase. Does that narrow things down?
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Augusto Boer Bront
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From the Features section of this site.

"These swords enjoyed great popularity between 1270 and 1340, and though represented widely in period artwork and on effigial monuments, survivors of this type are relatively rare. By Oakeshott's estimate, some 80% of English knightly effigies from the period of 1290-1330 illustrate Type XIV swords. Their popularity can probably be attributed to the increasing defenses they faced."

Here there is a great timespan too =). You have to be sure what period you want to reconstruct and go on with it,

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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
Joined: 15 Apr 2013

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well that brings it down to the first half of the 14th century at least. It's nice to have more room to work with.

I am assuming this is a knightly kit, but some men-at-arms of this era could be similarly equipped I imagine, just of lesser rank...

If I have my long and arming sword taken care of, I'm thinking a soft kit would be next. I am not part of any group, but I would like to be able to blend in with one if I walked into a group. Wink I'm really not sure what that would be though, aketon of some sort?
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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
Joined: 15 Apr 2013

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Also, I am assuming arming swords were typically worn on the belt and long swords carried in hand or in a saddle. I have no scabbard for the DT (un-sharpened), which isn't a priority item for me unless it's needed for wearing.
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Augusto Boer Bront
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Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Define soft kit.
Do you intend a soldier in civilian clothes or a lightly armoured one?

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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was thinking of a sort of light armor kit that I could eventually add armor to, if possible.
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Augusto Boer Bront
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok.
So yes, you could use some sort of gambeson as light armour (you'll need it anyways when you'll ad more steel). Something like this I think would be fine http://www.medieval-market.com/details.php?id_towar=162&s=1.

This particular model is taken form italian frescoes
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27282268@N07/627...7969734756
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27282268@N07/627...7969734756
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27282268@N07/627...7969734756

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

Pinterest albums to almost all existing XIVth century armour.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another choice for you may be a Hospitaller, Teutonic or late Templar knight...
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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
Joined: 15 Apr 2013

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Augusto Boer Bront wrote:
Ok.
So yes, you could use some sort of gambeson as light armour (you'll need it anyways when you'll ad more steel). Something like this I think would be fine http://www.medieval-market.com/details.php?id_towar=162&s=1.

This particular model is taken form italian frescoes
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27282268@N07/627...7969734756
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27282268@N07/627...7969734756
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27282268@N07/627...7969734756


Nice site! I noticed this one gambeson made with training in mind, but is it historical? http://www.medieval-market.com/details.php?id_towar=399&s=5
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Augusto Boer Bront
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Apr, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, but not for the period you are interested in =).
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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Apr, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Would it be typical to wear a gambeson both under and over the armor? I understand that plate didn't need padding underneath, but early 14th century there's a lot of mixing plate, mail, and padding. As I mentioned, l'm hoping to work towards an adaptable kit, so I don't have to reinvest when adding steel armor.
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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
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Posts: 99

PostPosted: Wed 01 May, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One more question: Would it be proper to wear a long sword of that size at the belt? Sarge (Crusader Monk) built a beautiful scabbard with a belt suspension for a fellow with the same del tin.
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Augusto Boer Bront
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Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
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PostPosted: Wed 01 May, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They were usually brought on the saddle on horse, but there is a depiction of a belt scabbard too. So I would say yes, you could use it.
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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 01 May, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Augusto Boer Bront wrote:
They were usually brought on the saddle on horse, but there is a depiction of a belt scabbard too. So I would say yes, you could use it.


Thanks for all the replies Augusto!

I suppose it would be silly to wear both a longsword and an arming sword. All I need is a horse! Wink
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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 01 May, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Regarding armor, I've been thinking, how does this sound for armor, 14th century:
- Aketon/gambeson underneath
- Haubergeon (or Hauberk?) over the aketon
- Coat of Plates (or cuirasse?) over the maille
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Augusto Boer Bront
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Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
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PostPosted: Wed 01 May, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's ok. But yet you have to decide which time frame you want to represent.
A simple gambeson would work for the first half of the 14th century, while a well fitted pourpoint for the second half.
Coats of plates last untill '60s-'70s, then they are being more progressively replaced by solid breastplates.

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