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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sat 30 Mar, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: 16th Century German Baskethilt/Rapier (Repost)         Reply with quote

I came across this sword at the Vikingsword website where it was sold about a year ago. It is referred to there as a Proto Schiavona. Danelli Armouries made a sword obviously inspired by it that they call a Sidesword Schiavona

When this thread was up before, both Nathan and ElJay dismissed the idea of calling it some kind of early schiavona, saying that it was much more like a South German baskethilt. If you look at Nathanís Schiavona Article you will see that it is similar to German Baskethilt J, from around 1570.

Nathan also said that he thought that the sword was not in its original state, with the pommel, guard cage, and blade at some point being cutlered together from other swords.

I find this German rapier/baskethilt with Schiavona elements very attractive. Does anyone know more about it, or other similar swords?



 Attachment: 35.9 KB
proto_schiavona_1500-1550.jpg
From Vikingsword.com

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proto_schiavona2s.jpg
From Vikingsword.com

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proto_schiavona3.jpg
From Vikingsword.com

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proto_schiavona5.jpg
From Vikingsword.com
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Cornelis Tromp




Location: Holland
Joined: 03 Jan 2010

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

this sword has been discussed here;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?...=schiavona


best,
Jasper
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
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Posts: 3,958

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cornelis Tromp wrote:
this sword has been discussed here;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?...=schiavona


best,
Jasper


Thanks for the link. Some varying opinions on its origins, from Germany in the 1540's to being put together in a Northern Italian arsenal from disparite parts around 1640.

It has some similarities with the leaf shaped elements in a Type I schiavona, but the overall shape is quite different. The pommel is very much like the one on that "J hilt" referred to earlier.
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Cornelis Tromp




Location: Holland
Joined: 03 Jan 2010

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

yes Type J is correct.
This classification is taken from European Weapons and Armour: From the Renaissance to the Industrial Revolution, by R. Ewart Oakeshott

please see also post #17 of the vikingsword thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?...=schiavona


for a discussion of this type of unknown pommel please see:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p...ht=#185136


best,
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
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Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Tue 02 Apr, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Too bad I don't really have any information to add about this sword, since I also find it (or at least the hilt) quite attractive.
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