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Christopher B Lellis




Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 01 Dec 2012

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PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject: How is the Albion Munich as a cutter?         Reply with quote

It doesn't look like much of a cutter but I'm not going to judge a book by its cover, how does it compare in cutting to XVa swords?
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Jeremiah Swanger




Location: Hershey, PA
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Christopher,

While he didn't do any cutting tests with the sword, Bill Grandy goes into some detail about the blade's surprisingly-complex geometry. It seems to me that the sword's cutting performance may vary noticeably, depending on what portion of the blade you cut with.

For example, Bill mentions that the blade flattens out near the Center of Percussion (approximately 23.5" from the hilt), so I would actually expect cutting performance to be quite good at that particular part of the blade. You can read the rest of the review for yourself HERE.

I also got to handle the Munich, when I visited Albion's showroom in New Glarus, WI (the most charming little town I've ever been to!), and I have to say that the Munich handles exquisitely-- I simply cannot think of a better word.

"Rhaegar fought nobly.
Rhaegar fought valiantly.
Rhaegar fought honorably.
And Rhaegar died."

- G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire
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Christopher B Lellis




Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 01 Dec 2012

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremiah Swanger wrote:
Hi Christopher,

While he didn't do any cutting tests with the sword, Bill Grandy goes into some detail about the blade's surprisingly-complex geometry. It seems to me that the sword's cutting performance may vary noticeably, depending on what portion of the blade you cut with.

For example, Bill mentions that the blade flattens out near the Center of Percussion (approximately 23.5" from the hilt), so I would actually expect cutting performance to be quite good at that particular part of the blade. You can read the rest of the review for yourself HERE.

I also got to handle the Munich, when I visited Albion's showroom in New Glarus, WI (the most charming little town I've ever been to!), and I have to say that the Munich handles exquisitely-- I simply cannot think of a better word.


Yeah I read that review and it was quite informative and interesting, but I was hoping for some other opinions, particularly comparisons with XVa style blades, you see, both are obviously good thrusters but I desire the one that has the better cutting potential.
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Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have an Albion Constable (XVa) and it cuts quite well.

J

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Jason Elrod




Location: Winchester, VA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a tough one to answer. Will the Munich cut better than an XVa? The answer is it depends.

How tall are you? How strong are you? How skilled are you? Which XVa would you like to compare . . . something like Albion's constable or Albion's Talhoffer or A&A Black Prince? What is the cross section like on the XVa you'd like to compare?
What type of target do you want to cut?

I think we get too caught up in the "perceived" limitations of Oakeshott's typologies.

I owned both the Talhoffer and the Munich. I cut better with the Talhoffer but I've seen people much more skilled than I am do amazing things with the Munich, cuts that I definitely couldn't do with the Talhoffer even if I was better trained. Of course these guys could do the same cuts with the Talhoffer. Then again pool noodles, water bottles and pumpkins really don't offer much resistance. For the most part, the alignment of the blade seems to be the determining factor in the success of the cut.

In the above example, I cut better with the Talhoffer, my friend cut better with the Munich but cut just as well with the Talhoffer. . . so which sword cuts better?

In my experience the Talhoffer seems much more forgiving to novices than the Munich. Maybe it's the complexity of the Munich blade verses the Talhoffer or maybe I just preferred the smaller size of the Talhoffer to the Munich. The almost 1 1/2" difference between the Talhoffer and the Munich made a difference in how comfortable I felt wielding the sword.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of factors which will determine which sword will cut better than another sword and most of those factors have little to do with the typology per say and more to do with the person wielding the sword and what you are trying to cut in relation to the cross section of the blade. And while the cross section is related to the typology it is not the same thing. I guarantee that the Talhoffer, Constable, and Black Prince all feel and cut differently from each other even though they are all part of the same Typology.

I'm not sure this helps any in your decision but there you have it. Good luck.
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not really a sword that seemed to be intended to be a cutter (to me it actually seems a bit like a steel spike) but if you can accelerate the blade and keep the edge aligned it will cut like an angry enough beast. Accelerating the Munich and aligning the edge is, incidentally, not all that difficult...disc pommels are user friendly on that point. The grip is a bit thin so depending on personal preference you might find it works better for you with a pair of gloves on. Not a sword I have anymore but definitely one I'd love to get again someday.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
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Peter Johnsson
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Location: Storvreta, Sweden
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PostPosted: Thu 27 Dec, 2012 2:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A clean cut through a thick bundle of target material is a satisfying thing to experience.
This is not always what swords were about: You do not have to be able to deliver such cuts for a sword to be supremely effective.

The Munich is a sword that can absolutely deliver devastating cuts, but it not designed with cutting as a first priority.
If you want a sword that simply looks impressive at the cutting stand, this sword might not be for you.

It is an extremely good sword for the fighting style it was made for, however.

If you want to develop an understanding of long sword fighting of the period, the Munich will be a more or less perfect companion for you.
-The use of the long sword is not simply about delivering amputating cuts. It is about speed, precision, timing and fluidity of motion as much as anything else.
The Munich is a very lethal weapon in the hands of a trained swordsman, but it is not designed for impressive feats defeating milk jugs or plastic bottles.

The Munich is very closely based on a surviving original from the late 15th century. The data are not from second or third hand sources but from my own measurements and my own impressions from handling the original. This degree of familiarity with original artifacts and faithfulness to their subtle details of design is far beyond the norm of the industry, be it production swords or individual custom made swords.

When you grip this sword you will know what a swordsman back in the day used for his survival on the field of battle or in a duel for his life. It is not a modern approximation of a medieval sword: it is faithful to all important aspects in terms of weight, blade and edge geometry mass distribution and dynamic properties. In this regard it is as if you were using the museum original. If this is something that sparks your interest, the Munich will be a rewarding sword for your studies and collecting.

-But there are many other interesting swords out there, combining the slim profile of the late medieval long sword and decent or even excellent cutting performance. The Albion Museum Line Brescia Spadona is an excellent cutting sword, that is also very close to a surviving original of good quality. It is not so well suited for half swording, but that is the price you pay for better cutting performance.
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Christopher B Lellis




Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 01 Dec 2012

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Thu 27 Dec, 2012 9:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I Am interested in martial arts with swords and have been practicing with another individual, it's not just about cutting for me although I admit, I do get satisfied when making deep cuts through those tatami mats. I appreciate the in depth descriptions you guys gave me of the Munich, now I am even more interested in this sword.
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