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Antonio Ganarini




Location: Trentino, Italia
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Apr, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: A photo and a question about pauldrons...         Reply with quote

Hi to all!
Last weekend I visited a castle in Trentino named Castel Beseno (http://www.buonconsiglio.it/index.php/en/Castel-Beseno/monumento/Percorso-di-visita/Visita-a-Castel-Beseno/La-fortezza for a fast overview), and in the little armoury I saw an interesting sword blade with two fullers running for the entire blade length (the quality of the photo attached isn't excellent, but I did my best!). It was dated about XV century, probably made in Passau.
I was seeking to know what type of blade is it... Someone has some ideas?

Now, the question about pauldrons: is there historical evidence of pauldrons attached directly to chainmail, or is it a plate armour only feature?

Thank you very much!
(I beg your pardon for my bad English!)



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Ciao a tutti!
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Jojo Zerach





Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posts: 288

PostPosted: Tue 17 Apr, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: A photo and a question about pauldrons...         Reply with quote

I don't think 16th century style pauldrons would have ever been attached to mail.
The closest thing I'm aware of is during the early 14th century, round discs were often attached to the shoulder of a mail haubergeon.
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/unkno...506/large/
Articulated spaulders start to appear in the 1330's-1340's, and they would have been pointed to or through a haubegeon, but they were always attached to a rerebrace and arm harness. (not worn alone.)
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Antonio Ganarini




Location: Trentino, Italia
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 76

PostPosted: Tue 17 Apr, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Jojo!
I think that's evident I'm not an expert, isn't it? Happy
So, trying to join articulated pauldrons to an haubergeon through a pair of strings of leather and buckles, is not a good idea at all!

Ciao a tutti!
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Aleksei Sosnovski





Joined: 04 Mar 2008

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Tue 17 Apr, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pointing pauldrons to the maille makes little sense. They should rather be pointed to whatever garment you wear under the maille. If you pass the points through the maille they will additionally prevent maille from shifting. I think some people wrote on this forum that they do this and it works perfectly.

Though I am absolutely sure that somebody at some point tried to attach his pauldrons to his maille. And if it worked for him he would continue doing so. But if pointing pauldrons to a gambeson through the maille worked better he would prefer the latter solution.
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Ed Toton




Location: Northern VA
Joined: 16 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Smaller spaulders were often pointed to mail in the 14th century, if I'm correct. Later periods with more complete plate armor would have the pauldrons usually pointed to the arming garment rather than mail.
-Ed T. Toton III
ed.toton.org | ModernChivalry.org
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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

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PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr, 2012 11:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

this isnt what your talking about but a theoretical 'alternative' would be sleeves of plate maile where the pauldrones are integrated into the maile, effectively replacing the maile in the hauberk around the shoulders with articulated plates,

i have no idea how well this might work, im merely fantasizing.

although i realise its not the quesion you were asking.

as far as i know, pauldrones attatched directly to the arm defences to, by the 15th century form a continuous piece of armour.
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Jojo Zerach





Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posts: 288

PostPosted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 12:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ed Toton wrote:
Smaller spaulders were often pointed to mail in the 14th century, if I'm correct. Later periods with more complete plate armor would have the pauldrons usually pointed to the arming garment rather than mail.


14th century spaulders were worn with mail, but it's impossible to say for sure if they were pointed to the mail, or through it. (I find the later more likely.)
I think Antonio was asking if they were simply worn alone, and 14th century spaulders seem to have always been integrated with the arms harness.
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Antonio Ganarini




Location: Trentino, Italia
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jojo Zerach wrote:
I think Antonio was asking if they were simply worn alone, and 14th century spaulders seem to have always been integrated with the arms harness.


In fact, that was my original question. But I'm interested as well in pauldrons evolution, from the earlier forms you reminded me to their final form! Assuming that every armour piece made his very first appearance at some point!

Do you know some articles or assays that can help me to study the argument in a deeper detail?

Ciao a tutti!
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