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Dave Stephan




Location: Australia
Joined: 16 Mar 2012

Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon 26 Mar, 2012 10:49 pm    Post subject: Indian products         Reply with quote

Hey everyone.

I was just wondering what everybody's opinion on the Indian produced armour available. It seems most of the stuff you can buy comes from there, then you have stores which order it in from India and sell it locally for double the amount.

I want to buy a set of chain, but its a lot of money to spend on something without knowing the full story.
<eBay link removed>

I've bought a few helmets from different Indian retailers and I've found the quality to be excellent. I'm no expert, however, so I'd like to know your opinions and if this shirt is a good deal or not. There are $500 shirts around but I can't afford that, so how different is this to a high end one?

Thanks.

I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight.
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Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 110

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Maille shirt         Reply with quote

Hi Dave

I'm not sure I'd go with aluminium if you are after a maille shirt even though this one says riveted. It also says LARP on the link you posted so I very much doubt it would work well for WMA or any sort of serious contact.

I'd be tempted to save a few more $ and get steel. Alternatively if you are looking to do contact training now but not full tourney level, maybe a gambeson instead?

I got a wedge riveted hauberk (mix of solid and riveted rings) for NZ$700 from an Indian supplier and it took a good few hits with just a linen shirt underneath at the Harcourt Park tourney (WMA type rules with reasonable contact) here to no ill effect to me or the maille.

cheers

mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
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Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: 10 Nov 2009

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 4:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I looked into the riveted aluminium mailles a year ago, they're fine for larp, as movie props or posing for tourists all day without the real weight of one.
The ones I saw were clear (milky white silver) anodized and most re-enactment groups would probably frown on this unrealistic colour though, unless you oil burn or paint it black. If you can get it in matte black anodizing that would look better. Maybe you can get it re-annoed to black after you buy it. If it's worth the effort.

It won't stand up to any extended HEMA hard steel contact use and most definitely not the ultra violence dished out from SCA combat use. Maybe it'd hold up to some Rawlings plastic blade sparring.
But as non-combat garb, then it seems to me to look about the same as a lot of the riveted steel mailles out there. If you never had any maille before maybe this could be a starter for light use until you got something better. Keep in mind the colour really will be off though and a tell it's aluminium.

But part of the reason for most re-enactors to get a maille in the first place is the feeling of weight and some real protection helping you get in touch with warrior history. For that you'd need a real weight maille of some quality. GDFB would be a good source and they're not all that expensive.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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David Clark





Joined: 10 Feb 2009

Posts: 129

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Try Kult of Athena for riveted maille if you live in the US. Great services and great pricing.
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,190

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Indian products         Reply with quote

Dave Stephan wrote:
I've bought a few helmets from different Indian retailers and I've found the quality to be excellent. I'm no expert, however, so I'd like to know your opinions and if this shirt is a good deal or not. There are $500 shirts around but I can't afford that, so how different is this to a high end one?.

FWIW $500 will not get you a "high end" shirt. You'd need to spend several thousands, same as for any other high-end piece of armour. $500 will get you a slightly better Indian shirt that would hold up a little better when being battered.
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Thomas Peters




Location: La Farge, WI
Joined: 19 Oct 2011

Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Mail shirts         Reply with quote

Dave,
Be careful buying "Cheap" from over sea's. A friend of mine bought a shirt at a great price form over sea's (not sure if it was on ebay or some other similar site). It was under 200.00 for a riveted steel Haubergeon, which is a great price. Then after the purchase he paid for shipping form overseas and the shirt was no longer a great price.
Take your time and look around and I am sure you can find someplace in the US to purchase a shirt that you will be happy with and can still afford.

Tribe Woden Thor historical re-enactors.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I removed your eBay link because, according to our rules, we are not allowed to discuss active auctions. Next time, post info about the item, include a photo, and start a discussion about it without having a link to the auction. Alternately, you can link to the seller and ask about the entire line of products, but avoid linking to a specific active auction.
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Dave Stephan




Location: Australia
Joined: 16 Mar 2012

Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Indian products         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
Dave Stephan wrote:
I've bought a few helmets from different Indian retailers and I've found the quality to be excellent. I'm no expert, however, so I'd like to know your opinions and if this shirt is a good deal or not. There are $500 shirts around but I can't afford that, so how different is this to a high end one?.

FWIW $500 will not get you a "high end" shirt. You'd need to spend several thousands, same as for any other high-end piece of armour. $500 will get you a slightly better Indian shirt that would hold up a little better when being battered.


I wasn't suggesting a $500 shirt is the best you can get. It's certainly the best you can get from an Indian retailer, the cut off price is around $500 or $700. Obviously, something better would have to be made locally by a reenactor blacksmith who knows his bollocks.

It's like a guitar. I can spend $200 on a Bullet Strat (which I did when I started), but you can spend $3000 on a good one if you like. How much are you willing to stab your wallet in the gut?

As for me, I want something to wear to the local fayre which can take light impact from blunt steel swords. I'm not interested in any of that SCA stuff, the amount of punishment your equipment has to take in that means buying anything 'good' is almost not worth it. Hence why you make it yourself out of carpet and plastic, which actually works.

I live 'down under' so buying a $200 shirt from India would easily equal $300 ATLEAST. That's why my first question was, is the quality of the Indian produced stuff any good? It seems to me I might end up better off with a local fellow, I just need to find one.

I'm only 17, the money I have is what I've saved up for a long time. I can't afford one of your historically reconstructed with ONLY period tools and equipment, made to my specific dimensions, that'll be over $9000 thanks shirts. Wink

I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight.
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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 612

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 8:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Indian steel stuff is fine against thrusts from rebated steel weapons. No reason it wouldn't stand up to Renn Faire swordplay. Aluminum mail is like costume jewelry. Don't bother with it. Waste of money for anything other than movie sets.
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2012 6:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I assume that Dan is considering high end to mean near exact replica of a period shirt. Truth is nothing you get is likely to be made in this manner in our time as the basic material is different. There are a number of people that can get you close though but the level of similarity is something you will have to decide on. That said the quality of existing mail is vastly varied as well. By and large the indian stuff is fine for most living history type uses. I'd avoid the alum. ones myself as they look, feel and wear different from iron but riveted stuff of almost any nature is better than butted. Looks like a fireworks show everytime you get hit as links shoot off into the sky in butted mail.

I have had to replace a few rivets in my mail after use but I expect they had to do that in real use as well. Get a 10 dollar HF anvil and you are good to go.

RPM
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Brian Robson





Joined: 19 Feb 2007

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2012 8:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unfortunately, mail is massively labour-intensive - which is what makes the Indian mail so popular.

Generally it's ok, meeting the needs of the UK re-enactment community - but that's probably more based on trusting the end suppliers (GDFB + Cap-a-Pie) and therefore the manufacturers they use as opposed to knowing who the Indian manufacturers are directly.

But there is stuff out there that is unacceptable for UK re-enactment (As already mentioned, aluminium, galvanised or stainless mail, mail with massive sleeves).

Regardless what you get, remember that it is off-the-peg with very little shaping and you may want to spend time adjusting it to give a more comfortable and authentic fit.
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