Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Welded Pommels? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Michael Pikula
Industry Professional



Location: Madison, WI
Joined: 07 Jun 2008

Posts: 411

PostPosted: Tue 31 May, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject: Welded Pommels?         Reply with quote

I recall reading somewhere??? that some pommels were, or could have been, constructed from two pieces being welded together like a sandwich, with a slot for the tang being carved or forged into each half. I can't find the source and I'm wondering if anyone has any documentation or evidence as to if this technique was actually utilized or if it is someones individual concept. If this process was used was there a time period that it was more relevant then others?
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scott Woodruff





Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 601

PostPosted: Tue 31 May, 2011 10:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes Michael, pommels were indeed sometimes made by joining two pieces. The examples I have seen pics of were made of fairly thin sheet and were brazed together, similar to the hollow spherical pommels on Brithish basket-hilts. All of the examples that I have seen were found loose, so we do not know if they were left hollow or if they were filled with some sort of matrix. On another thread (Scandinavian longswords?) Peter Johnson suggested the possibility of their being filled with molten lead. The medieval conception of what a pommel should be was rather different from our own modern ideas. Today, we think of pommels as being a solid chunk of metal tightly fitted to the tang, but most medieval pommels are at least partially hollow and are only tightly fitted to the tang near the button. The hollow part could then be wedged with wooden wedges or the wood grip core could extend into the pommel.
View user's profile Send private message
Peter Lyon
Industry Professional



Location: New Zealand
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Reading list: 39 books

Posts: 229

PostPosted: Tue 31 May, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have handled a sword very similar to the construction Scott describes. A scottish longsword c.1410, a disk pommel with the long neck to the pommel button characteristic of this period, it is made of four pieces - two dished faces and two side strips which create the space for the tang, clearly brazed together (the iron is corroded, the brazing still clean bronze). Also lots of space around the tang, which doesn't seem to be caused by corrosion, so presumably the grip core extended into the pommel. I suspect most examples of this construction are to allow a bulkier pommel without it actually being heavier.
Still hammering away
View user's profile Send private message
Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Tue 31 May, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Welded Pommels?         Reply with quote

Michael Pikula wrote:
I recall reading somewhere??? that some pommels were, or could have been, constructed from two pieces being welded together like a sandwich, with a slot for the tang being carved or forged into each half. I can't find the source and I'm wondering if anyone has any documentation or evidence as to if this technique was actually utilized or if it is someones individual concept. If this process was used was there a time period that it was more relevant then others?


Recently, Owen Bush replied to a question I had on traditional slitting/drifting of pommels with a mention of this technique, you also participated in this thread. maybe this is what you are thinking of:

http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showt...p;p=186299

I'm thinking of trying this myself, as I can't come up with a good historically viable (i.e. no drilling) way of slitting/drifting thin disk pommels without lots of distortion. When I've tried this, the pommel ends up in a distinctive D shape, where the "bottom" of the pommel flattens out where it rests on the anvil while I pound the drift in from the other side.

I was thinking, maybe a rounded "dish" or concave radius on a swage block could mitigate this, perhaps? Either that, or 2 halves, with a fitted slot chiseled/filed into the halves, then forge-welded together carefully.
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Pikula
Industry Professional



Location: Madison, WI
Joined: 07 Jun 2008

Posts: 411

PostPosted: Wed 08 Jun, 2011 9:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies and the information! I'm going to be giving welding up and brazing pommels a try and see what kind of results I end up with.

Dustin, thanks for the link! No wonder I couldn't find the reference, I was looking at the wrong forum...

Another way to prevent as much deformation would be to split/drift/punch the hole for the tang into a sizable portion of bar stock, since the metal will have more support and be harder to deform in the operation you choose to do. Not to mention you can weld a handle on the bar and it makes holding on to your work piece much easier. Once you have your hole set you can trim, pinch, or hot cut off the section and forge it to shape to get your pommel stock.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scott Woodruff





Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 601

PostPosted: Wed 08 Jun, 2011 10:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey, that deformation is a good thing! Practically all disk pommels that I have ever seen have some degree of deformation of the type you described.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Welded Pommels?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum