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Robert Muse




Location: Washington
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 6:34 pm    Post subject: Cawood Sword         Reply with quote

Hello, I am very interested in acquiring a replica of the Cawood Sword, but canít afford a custom. The only one I have considered is the Del Tin 5120. Now I generally like Del Tins, but there is now the cheaper Hanwei 2457 to choose from. It is much smaller and lighter than the Del Tin. From the specifications can anyone with more knowledge tell me which would make the best replica?

Also why does the original seem to have a non symmetrical guard that is not found on the replicas?

I have held off purchasing one because I had no source to apply the characters found on both sides of the blade, but now that Sonny at Valiant can do this, I want to proceed.
Now very important can anyone direct me to a source that would show a clear drawing of just what characters are applied to each side of the blade. My photos of this are not clear enough.

Any help is gratefully appreciated.
Best Regards,
Robert
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Del Tin is a nice sword. I prefer it over the Hanwei, but the price reflects this. Since you're considering sending it to Sonny for additional work, you'll have the opportunity to have him sharpen the blade as well. If while doing so, he's able to thin the blade out and remove 4-5 ounces, the piece would be greatly improved.
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 7:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert,

It's a fascinating sword that has often been discussed around here. I also have a particular obsession with this sword and its brethren. I hadn't noticed the guard was so asymetric - are you sure you're not thinking of the similar Norwegian sword, which has a highly assymetric guard? They are both pictured under MyAmoury Features type XII. This brings up an interesting question for the modern replicator - to replicate the errors, or correct them?

The original Cawood has a blade of 32". For some reason CAS/Hanwei has given its replica a blade of 30", perhaps so it will handle easier. I haven't seen this in person yet but from the picture it looks like the fuller is sort of flat, like on some of their other models. Something more rounded would be more period correct. I suspect the blade might also have the grainy finish that CAS/Hanwei often uses. Overall I think the Del Tin version looks nicer and closer to the original.

Having said that, there's something odd about the Del Tin blade measurement on Kult of Athena's page: they say the blade is 34.5 inches, which would be too long (more like the Norwegian sword). It does look long on the picture too. Sometimes Del Tin switches up blades on its swords, so that might be an unusual case. I would check on this if ordering from them.

There's also the 'Mad Dwarf' version, which is not perfectly accurate either and I suppose more expensive (I don't know what they charge for their swords).

Good luck, JD
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would like to see a custom version of this sword, perhaps created by Arms & Armor of Minnesota.
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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 9:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There have been a few good repros of this sword. I feel that most fall short by not looking at how wide the tang is. The handle on the original must have been a beefy one. I can see why most who have made a version of would want a slimmer handle as it would look better that way but I would like to see one spot on.



The Mad Dwarf guys made a nice one a little while ago, I believe.

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Robert Muse




Location: Washington
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject: Sword         Reply with quote

Hi, thanks for the input. I still need a clear drawing that shows the actual inscriptions. Anyone???

It could just be the photo:

http://www.vikingrune.com/2011/02/cawood-sword

That made me think the guard is non symetrical. I could easily be wrong. So everyone agrees that the Del Tin is better then. I tend to like some Del Tins better than Hanwei. But I am surprised by the weight and length of this one! The fuller appears to be property narrower than on most Vikings.

Mad Dwarf mades great swords, I have a seax, but their swords seem to start at $1200 they tell me.

Robert



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cawood_sword.jpg

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Jeroen Averhals




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2011 3:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert,

Arma Bohemia makes a replica of this kind of sword:

http://www.armabohemia.cz/Novestr/swordsA.htm
http://www.armabohemia.cz/imgnew/epees/epees/ep42v.jpg
http://www.armabohemia.cz/imgnew/epees/epees/ep42v4.jpg
http://www.armabohemia.cz/imgnew/epees/epees/ep42v3.jpg

Jeroen Averhals

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E Sideris




Location: Massachusetts, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2011 6:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeroen, I belive that's the aforementioned asymmetrical Norwegian example of the transitional type, going by the picture of the original Arma Bohemia provides:



For my part, I prefer that sword aesthetically, but I think reproductions of the Cawood sword are more rare. As far as I know, Mad Dwarf Workshop has produced two swords inspired by this transitional type, and if memory serves, the earlier, more simple one better represents the actual Cawood sword (in blade shape at least) and the later one more the Norwegian blade. Here are some pictures nonetheless:

The newer, and pattern-welded:


The older, in monosteel:
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2011 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Sword         Reply with quote

Robert Muse wrote:
Hi, thanks for the input. I still need a clear drawing that shows the actual inscriptions. Anyone???




Hi Robert...

Here is the best I have... See attachments

Length 95cm
Blade Length 82cm
Max. Blade Width 57mm
Grip Length 85mm
CoG 225mm from guard
Weight 1232grams
Found along Ouse River Yorkshire, near Cawood Castle England

Estimate Date 1125.

Preserved in Yorkshire Museum

Hope this helps some...

take care

ks



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Two swords
Lit in Edenís flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert, You can find a detailed description of the sword inscriptions in the appendix of 'Records of the Medieval Sword' by Oakeshott, which is the medieval sword-collector's bible. I now see what you mean about the slight guard asymetry. It's obvious that the other Norwegian sword was made asymetric, but it seems to me from the picture that the Cawood guard might have been bent at some point in time. I think an expert sword maker would have to handle it to be sure.

ES: thanks for the pictures, I really like the newer Mad Dwarf sword. I hadn't seen that one before. Although there's still a bit of fancy to it - the original was not pattern welded to my knowledge.

Nathan, I agree that someone should commission a custom version of one of these swords. I would further venture to say that someone came very close, but got side tracked by another idea. Maybe next time.

Regards, JD
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Robert Muse




Location: Washington
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2011 10:18 pm    Post subject: Sword         Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the input. There are some great copies out there. Due to pricing, I will go with the Del Tin. I'm a bit concerned about the weight and length, but for the price, I think it would do. I would love a custom, but...

Also, thanks Kirk, that is just what I was looking for.

Best Regards
Robert
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 11:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some photos of the yet to be released Hanwei version of the Cawood Sword - SH2457. You can see some pictures and specs over at Therion Arms -

See it also at KOA -

While it won't be in the same class as a sword made by A&A or some of the other makers mentioned in this thread, it might compare favorably with the Del Tin, DT5120
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Robert Muse




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PostPosted: Tue 14 Jun, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: Cawood Sword         Reply with quote

Hello Everyone.

Well I sent a Del Tin Cawood to Sonny Suttles. Look at his new post in the manufacturers section.
I think it is a VAST improvement, and even through a Del Tin, it will fit well into my small collection.

Regards
Robert
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Eric G.




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PostPosted: Tue 14 Jun, 2011 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Cawood Sword         Reply with quote

Robert Muse wrote:

I have held off purchasing one because I had no source to apply the characters found on both sides of the blade


I seem to remember Christian Henry Tobler saying that KoA does a GREAT job at sharpening. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy to just dish out compliments that aren't deserved.

Also, here's a poor man's guide to engraving if you want to save yourself some money. This doesn't look like the best way, but there it is. http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/sword-engraving.html

Eric Gregersen
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Julien M




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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 2:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Last week I was at the yorkshire museum to document the cawood sword. Things went wrong because the asistant curator supposed to take care of us was off sick and we just got to see it in it's enclosure (which is very well made and allows for decent photography from most angles, with adequate lightning confition).

It's no match for hands on examination, but I noticed a few details of interest:

the pommel is hollow (at least the tang slot is very wide) as corrosion around the raised pattern of the pommel reveals (you can just barely see it on the close pommel shot below, two holes at the bottom).

there seems to be evidence of brazing/welding on the guard at the top junction with the tang.

Here are some of the shots I took. Enjoy!

ps: I could not get the insription on the blade despite all efforts...too bad we could not get closer indeed!)









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Lorenzo Chinaglia




Location: Italy
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PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi At all ,

any one have information abaut swords of this group ? I known in the group there are 10 swords correct ? the Cawood sword , the Oslo exemple and then ?

any one can provide details photos of the original piece ?

size and others details ?

thank you
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep, 2012 7:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I did not know that there were ten swords in this group. I know that Oakeshott mentions that a few type M's had turned up, mostly in northeastern England, but he gives no further info. I would love to learn more about Oakeshott type M swords found in England or elsewhere in western Europe. There is plenty of info to be found on post-Viking age lobe-pommeled swords in eastern Europe but almost nothing on their western counterparts, unless one includes the much later Scottish survivals, and even then the data is somewhat scarce.

For some info on 12th and 13th century lobe-pommeled swords in the Baltic check out this link, particularly you will be looking for type T1, pgs 53-57 and 136-137 http://www.club-kaup.narod.ru/kaup_r_kazakevicius00_orig.html
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Lorenzo Chinaglia




Location: Italy
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PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep, 2012 8:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you very much ... yes I have this book on my collection ... I olso have some swords with lobated pommel like this sword hilt in photos but the baltic swords are ussually of different size of the north european etc , Im interested in particular in the exectly size of the pommel in the cawood exemple and Oslo if some students here known ....



Yes Oakeshott dont mention information on swords of this group but I dont remember where I read there are 10 swords of this type of the XII type with five lobed pommel and style guard.

I m searching to find good photos of the museum exemple (including the Oslo and York exemple ) I found some in internet but not of good quality...

if information abaut the others exemple this can be fantastic ... but very hard : )

thank you Lorenzo



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Peter Lyon
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PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I got to examine and handle the sword in 2008, and there are a few things to note. The sword was heavily cleaned by someone before the museum got it, so there could be a lot of things "done" to it. For example, the blade is likely a bit lighter than when it was forged. I also felt that the cross was glued in place (I assume by a previous owner), as there is a large gap otherwise - possibly due to corrosion; it did not look like brazing to me.

The pommel is also very thin and light, so I doubt it would be hollow.

Still hammering away
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Lorenzo Chinaglia




Location: Italy
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PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, your thoughts are very important and help me .... the thing that interests me above all is to find information about other swords of this group ....

the pommel at your memory do you think was over 1.5 cm thick ?
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