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Jared Lambert




Location: Chandler, AZ
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sun 21 Nov, 2010 9:54 pm    Post subject: Getting an aketon/gambeson         Reply with quote

I've saved up money for a aketon/gambeson and i think i have narrowed the company down to matuls, however I have a question regarding their pourpoint (Charles de Blois). The way of fastening in the picture is with A LOT of raw buttons Eek! is this a difficult way of fastening a garmet and should i get it with different fastenings?
All replies are greatly appreciated.

http://www.matuls.pl/index.php?IDP=1&Lng=...ategoria=6
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Aleksei Sosnovski





Joined: 04 Mar 2008

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Mon 22 Nov, 2010 3:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I use a pourpoint-style garment to wear under my plate harness. I use points for fastening and no buttons on sleeves (sleeves are just wide enough for my hand to get through. Easy to put on, but a little challenging to take off when it is soaked with sweat). Works like charm. If you want it to be even more convenient to put on, use straps and buckles for fastening, but depending on type of armor it may not be very comfortable to wear.
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W Luth




Location: Netherlands
Joined: 22 Oct 2010

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon 22 Nov, 2010 7:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Jared,

I have a pourpoint in brocade from Matuls. They are a pain to close because of the sheer number of buttons, opening is easier since you just ' rip ' open the buttons then.

I usually just cheat by closing the top few buttons, the lowest and then throw my cuirass over Wink

Do keep in mind that Matuls has very nice quality items but in my experience they ocassionally would get the sizes wrong (suddenly my arms were 15 cm longer from the last time i ordered?), colours reversed in multi colored doublets, etc,
All that wouldnt put me off but they are sometimes very slow in the order realization and very incommunicative.
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Jared Lambert




Location: Chandler, AZ
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Mon 22 Nov, 2010 7:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, im going for a mid 14th century kit (Combat of the thirty) so coat of plates and splint/plate arm and leg defenses. I saw a photo of someone with this pourpoint with pointed sleeves and points for fastening.
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Michal Plezia
Industry Professional



Location: Poland
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
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Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 585

PostPosted: Mon 22 Nov, 2010 7:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello

Check this site http://www.medieval-market.biz/pl/towary.php?...y%20bojowe

My brother has his arming clothes made by them, and they are OK. The prices are also very reasonable.

www.elchon.com

Polish Guild of Knifemakers

The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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Jared Lambert




Location: Chandler, AZ
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Has anyone had any experience with the jolly knight? They have some nice looking stuff.
http://www.jollyknight.com.ua/

Two gambesons from their website that are inexpensive and nice looking.
http://www.jollyknight.com.ua/catalog/product...ucts_id=71
http://www.jollyknight.com.ua/catalog/product...cts_id=124
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David Teague




Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Joined: 25 Jan 2004

Posts: 409

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov, 2010 10:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jared Lambert wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with the jolly knight? They have some nice looking stuff.
http://www.jollyknight.com.ua/

Two gambesons from their website that are inexpensive and nice looking.
http://www.jollyknight.com.ua/catalog/product...ucts_id=71
http://www.jollyknight.com.ua/catalog/product...cts_id=124


I've never heard of them (til now).

I've had great dealings with Tomm of Matuls over the last number of years.

I'd stick with your first choice, buttons. I have a plain model with points, another in my group has buckles and straps but nothing screams 14th century like chest to waist cloth buttons. Happy

Cheers,

David

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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Craig Shackleton




Location: Ottawa, Canada
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
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Posts: 307

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a helmet, gauntlets and sabatons from Jolly Knight. I am really happy with the quality, and with the service I received. I cannot comment on the quality of his arming clothes, however, as I have never seen those in person.
Ottawa Swordplay
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Chris Arrington





Joined: 06 Apr 2007

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just a word of warning if you plan to use this for armored combat of some type.

A few of my friends have had undergarments with buttons, and were not real fond of them. If you get hit in the region of the buttons, depending on armour type etc, it can drive that button painfully back into your flesh. And it can leave some really amazing bruises. Of courses if your adverse to bruises, you probably aren't doing re-enactment combat ! Happy

Mine has tight sleeves, a lace up front, with points for armour attachement, and is made of two layers of bright red 10oz linen.
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David Teague




Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Joined: 25 Jan 2004

Posts: 409

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov, 2010 11:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Arrington wrote:
Just a word of warning if you plan to use this for armored combat of some type.

A few of my friends have had undergarments with buttons, and were not real fond of them. If you get hit in the region of the buttons, depending on armour type etc, it can drive that button painfully back into your flesh. And it can leave some really amazing bruises. Of courses if your adverse to bruises, you probably aren't doing re-enactment combat ! Happy

Mine has tight sleeves, a lace up front, with points for armour attachement, and is made of two layers of bright red 10oz linen.


Hi Chris,

This type of garment had soft cloth buttons... cloth sewn around a ball of cloth. No bruises from these. Big Grin

Cheers,

David

This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.

Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild

"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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Jared Lambert




Location: Chandler, AZ
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
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Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu 25 Nov, 2010 12:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies guys I just got the medieval tailors assistant in the mail today and have been learning quite a bit about clothing and fashion in medieval times(i.e cloth buttons) and i'm definitely going with buttons.
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Lucas Bucchile




Location: Brazil
Joined: 05 Sep 2013

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu 05 Sep, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Interest in buying a gambeson         Reply with quote

Salutes,

I am also interested in buying a gambeson so I hope there's no problem to use this topic. I need one to use during training as I have a small Historical Fencing group in Brazil. One important aspect that we need to prioritize upon selecting a gambeson is to have something that works well in terms of appearance and fits Fiore somehow, as for now we base our training mostly off of his styles.

So after some searching we've stumbled upon these two options that as for now seem like the most interesting and affordable ones:

http://www.darkknightarmoury.com/p-905-robin-...beson.aspx

http://www.darkknightarmoury.com/p-888-early-gambeson.aspx

Has anyone bought anything from this site yet? Could you recommend it? Perhaps would there be a better option elsewhere?

Many thanks!
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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
Joined: 15 Apr 2013

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Thu 05 Sep, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Interest in buying a gambeson         Reply with quote

Lucas Bucchile wrote:
Salutes,

I am also interested in buying a gambeson so I hope there's no problem to use this topic. I need one to use during training as I have a small Historical Fencing group in Brazil. One important aspect that we need to prioritize upon selecting a gambeson is to have something that works well in terms of appearance and fits Fiore somehow, as for now we base our training mostly off of his styles.

So after some searching we've stumbled upon these two options that as for now seem like the most interesting and affordable ones:

http://www.darkknightarmoury.com/p-905-robin-...beson.aspx

http://www.darkknightarmoury.com/p-888-early-gambeson.aspx

Has anyone bought anything from this site yet? Could you recommend it? Perhaps would there be a better option elsewhere?

Many thanks!


While I am not familiar with that particular website, the two items you provided are made by Windlass / Museum Replicas. Those two gambesons are decorative intended for costume wear. I would not rely on them for any kind of protection.

I have no experience with Revival gambesons but I have seen them recommended before and are probably the lowest cost functional gambesons that I have seen, and is based on Fiore. http://revival.us/14thcgambesonitalianzuparello.aspx
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Thu 05 Sep, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The first looks to be fantasy as well so if you want a historic one run from it. If you are looking to spend around 100 bucks you are likely going to get a synthetic material and will cook in it as well.

You want as much natural material as possible or you will cook in it.

RPM
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Lucas Bucchile




Location: Brazil
Joined: 05 Sep 2013

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu 05 Sep, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, t'would appear I will be needing further pointers as to how exactly come across a gambeson that is historically accurate, not suited for cooking, and that offers some degree of protection.

I've tried the fashion department at the local university but their budget went through the roof and pierced the skies. So, some further searching and looking for information is in order here. Any additional clarifying will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 456

PostPosted: Thu 05 Sep, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I picked up mine from Ice Falcon. I am very happy with it, it's held up well. I have also used this wrestling jacket.

http://www.revivalclothing.com/medievalwrestlingjacket.aspx

It's a heavy canvas, no padding. It's cooler in the summer, and it absorbs hits better than you would expect.

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Fri 06 Sep, 2013 5:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lucas,

Basically take a look at medieval examples of textile armours both remaining and in artwork.

You need to consider what purpose it needs to fill. Is it stand alone armour? Under mail only, transitional-plate and mail or all plate. The aketon for under all plate can be much thinner padding.

Also when.

Here is an earlier example, right of center bottom
http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images...&d.gif

and later

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=8426

RPM
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Lucas Bucchile




Location: Brazil
Joined: 05 Sep 2013

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun 08 Sep, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, here's a somewhat more precise breakdown on what exactly I need from a gambeson:

I have a small group dedicated to Historical Fencing here in Brazil. As we are just starting out a new phase under my leadership we still lack proper apparel and whatnot. When divulging and publishing appearances go a long way so to offer Medieval-inspired activities we gotta look the part. That's when a gambeson comes in. We don't really train full contact right now, although I am never willing to discard proper means of protection.

But we see how much looks are important here, right? That's the main goal - even if only for the time being.

I have also to consider we have some high temperatures over here and cooking classes aren't scheduled. So, once again, a gambeson that prioritizes looks over protection is a good idea. Protection means may come later, such as through helmets, padded additional equipment and so on.

The gambeson at the provided link looks interesting:

http://www.revivalclothing.com/medievalwrestlingjacket.aspx

Is it a complete set with leggings, booths and gloves? I take it it is?

I'd have to go for darker colors, lest we'd be the laughing stock of passersby as we train outdoors.

That, and provided it's cooking-proof, we'd be set for a seemingly good choice as any.

Thanks!
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Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Sun 08 Sep, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Gambeson & thickness         Reply with quote

Hi Lucas

I've used the wrestling jacket Matthew mentioned as well. If you are hit by a waster or steel blunt you will definitely feel it! But I like it too and do use it in summer - when we get one Happy

You might also try

http://www.gambeson.pl/

Other folk on myArmoury have commented favorably on Kokosh's. He does different thicknesses and is really responsive and willing to discuss options.
I'm getting a lighter weight gambeson to go under maille and a coat of plates.

If you are thinking about more protection, layering might be a way to go

cheers
mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
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T. Kew




Location: Cambridge, UK
Joined: 21 Apr 2012

Posts: 169

PostPosted: Sun 08 Sep, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lucas,

The Revival wrestling jacket is (as far as I can tell) not a set, the listing and price is just for the jacket. If it were a full set with boots and so on at that price it would be the best bargain I've seen all year. Nonetheless it looks like an excellent and durable garment, although I'd tend to go for something a touch more padded for weapon training.

Note that as long as you have a garment made solely of natural fibres, it will tend to breathe relatively well in hot weather. Your sweat can soak through it and evaporate out, instead of being trapped by polyester or the like. Obviously you'll need to drink plenty of water (but that's always true when practising combat in hot weather) but it's much less of a death sentence than you might guess.

Instructor and scholar, Cambridge HEMA
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