Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > 12 century kit Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 5:06 pm    Post subject: 12 century kit         Reply with quote

I am very new at this so please bare with me. I am trying to complete a 12th century knight kit (first- second crusade). I have the arms , 12th century sword, Crusader dagger, 12th century spear (all from Arms and Armor) and am now working on the armor and clothes. I am having trouble with the helm, pants, shoes. I was thinking of the Norman Spangen Helmet from medieval-fightclub.com? Is this correct for Western Europe 12th century? I've been doing some research, but specifics seem hard to come by. Thanks for any help!
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,170

PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 5:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a source for the Spangenhelm:

http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/index.php?c...0103d98080

This one I have and like very much because of the rivets:
http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=61

Kite shield: http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=87

You might ask Allan to modify it with a flat top for later period Kite shield.

Heater shield, a little more 13th century than 12th but a cut off at the top Kite shield like I mention above would be somewhere in between in period between the rounded top Kite shield and the later and a bit smaller heater shield.
http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...cts_id=112

A good source to look at for soft kit: http://www.revivalclothing.com/

!2th Century: http://www.revivalclothing.com/12th-13thcclothing.aspx

There are other vendor possibilities out there but these I know personally and have had good experience with: Hope this helps if finding stuff was the main question. If period suitability the Spangenhelm is the question the Spangenhelm certainly works for the 10th and 11th and I think still in use in the 12th and maybe the beginning of the 13th, but I'll let others chime in an confirm this in more detail.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. I like the Conical Spangenhelm and am considering it. I do not want any helm with butted mail however. I'm actually thinking of making my own shield. I read a post that said that the merctailor may not be accepting any more orders? Maybe I'm mistaken. Thanks for the links for the soft kit as I have not explored this site. Happy
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,170

PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Larry R wrote:
Thanks for the info. I like the Conical Spangenhelm and am considering it. I do not want any helm with butted mail however. I'm actually thinking of making my own shield. I read a post that said that the merctailor may not be accepting any more orders? Maybe I'm mistaken. Thanks for the links for the soft kit as I have not explored this site. Happy


Yes that is mistaken the title of that Topic was that Mercenary Tailor was worried about being able to stay in business because of low order rate: If you read past the first post you will see that people responded positively and made enough orders that he decided to stay in business.

Allan has one of the best reputations for good customer service and lots of people here want to help keep him in business.

As to the Spangenhelm: The specific one I linked to doesn't have an attached mail aventaille and you could buy a mail riveted coif to wear under the Spangenhelm. Oh, get an arming cap for padding since maille directly on one's head with a helm over it is not comfortable to say the least and you need padding between the maille and your head bones even when the helm itself has a good suspension system and it's own padding.

Her is a source for riveted maille from another reliable vendor::
http://www.kultofathena.com/armor-body.asp

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you very much for the great info and links! I'm glad Allen is staying in business. Thanks again!
View user's profile Send private message
Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 12 century kit         Reply with quote

Larry R wrote:
I am very new at this so please bare with me. I am trying to complete a 12th century knight kit (first- second crusade). I have the arms , 12th century sword, Crusader dagger, 12th century spear (all from Arms and Armor) and am now working on the armor and clothes. I am having trouble with the helm, pants, shoes. I was thinking of the Norman Spangen Helmet from medieval-fightclub.com? Is this correct for Western Europe 12th century? I've been doing some research, but specifics seem hard to come by. Thanks for any help!

Welcome Larry!

Jean posted quite a few good links for you; enough to keep you occupied for a while. Happy Judging from the high quality start to your kit, might I also suggest you look at the Arms & Armor Spangenhelm or the A&A Norman Conical Helm. Craig Johnson of A&A is an active member of this forum and has a wealth of knowledge. Send him a PM as he might be able to point you in the right direction. Since you live in the same city, you might want to stop by the armoury (after calling first). They're on Stinson Boulevard near Broadway.

For your riveted mail I would recommend Icefalcon Armoury or Cap-a-pie.

Good luck! It's nice to see another Twin Cities armour junkie on the forum. Wink

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
View user's profile Send private message
Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Scott. I actualy have stopped by Arms and Armor and have met Craig. He is very helpful and very pleasant to do business with. Their quality (as far as I'm concerned) is second to none. I was just hoping for a more economical helm. The Mercenary Tailer helm actualy caught my eye even before I posted. Now that I know it is period for my needs (and Allen is going strong) I am seriously considering it. My finances just need to catch up to my taste!
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,298

PostPosted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 6:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wouldn't a round-topped helmet be more accurate for the 12th century? Been a while since I looked at that, so I may be misremembering, but I thought the conical form was good for the 11th century but then a more globular shape became fashionable. Pretty sure a spangenhelm construction would be passe, as well. Don't take my word for it, though!

On the other hand (or leg!), no pants! Hosen and braies are what you want.

http://www.larp.com/midgard/braies.htm

http://www.larp.com/midgard/hosen.htm

Have fun!

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,170

PostPosted: Sun 07 Nov, 2010 4:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
Wouldn't a round-topped helmet be more accurate for the 12th century?


Even if a little out of fashion I think the conical Spangenhelm continued to be used for quite a while, but if Larry wants a rounded top Allan might be willing to make it that way as some of his other helms have rounded tops.

Minor customisation is definately as possibility in this case and it's a good idea to ask Allan about any modification or additions one wants for any of his standard line of product.

Now a full custom project might t be more expensive since Allan might have to experiment a bit to get the correct pattern, with his standard line he knows exactly how to cut a plate to be able to raise it to the right shape with minimum wastage and minimum time to make it.

Here is one by Allan that already has a rounded top: http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=68

If you don't like the butted maille you could ask for it without a ventail. ( Would probably cost less, not sure if Allan could get a riveted maille coif from another source and modify it into an attached to the rounded helm ventail ? Just ideas but the easiest thing is to just e-mail Allan and ask him ...... the worse he can say is no, but if the custom alterations are something he can easily do he should be willing to make what you want ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 7:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My research (limited that it is) also points to a round helm. I'm not looking to be accurate to a particular year, but early 12th century is what I'm going for. Thanks for all the great advice and links!



Off topic---how do you quote a reply or part of a reply in a new post?
View user's profile Send private message
Gary Venable




Location: Kansas City
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 3 pages
Reading list: 16 books

Posts: 133

PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I actually have Allan's Conical Helm http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=62 as well as several other pieces by him. I would add that the pictures on the site don't do his work justice and that helm is very nice and I am extremely happy with it. I would also second what Jean said about Allan customer service, the one time I had an issue he went above and beyond to make it right.
Gary
View user's profile Send private message
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Cincinnati, OH
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 21 pages
Reading list: 231 books

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 9,132

PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 8:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Larry R wrote:
Off topic---how do you quote a reply or part of a reply in a new post?


Hit the Quote button on the post you want to quote. Happy It looks like this:

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
Joined: 07 Oct 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I always heard that the later period nasal helms (and by 12th cent you are starting to get into the later period use of it) were made of single sheet construction.
The spangen style seemed to die out earlier.

Thats at least what Ive always heard,
Z
View user's profile Send private message
Gregory J. Liebau




Location: Dinuba, CA
Joined: 27 Nov 2004

Posts: 669

PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Check out this page.

-Gregory
View user's profile Send private message
Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gregory J. Liebau wrote:
Check out this page.
-
Gregory

Thanks for the link! My German is a little rusty (I have now idea what thier saying), but do you think that in pic H and in pic Q3 they may be representing piece construction? I have no idea, just asking. Happy In pic I2 the lines in the helm, are they just overlay or thicker parts of the same piece of metal? In pic S2 are the lines just decorations and not structural? Thanks for the great link!
View user's profile Send private message
Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 7:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Larry R wrote:
Off topic---how do you quote a reply or part of a reply in a new post?


Hit the Quote button on the post you want to quote. Happy It looks like this:

Thanks!! Laughing Out Loud
View user's profile Send private message
Larry R




Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 08 May 2010
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Fri 17 Dec, 2010 3:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you to everyone who posted and gave me links/advise on my kit. I have some more questions. What type of pouch was used in the early 12th century? Would a drawstring pouch be used, kidney shaped, or something different? Is a ring belt accurate? Thanks
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > 12 century kit
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum