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Johan K





Joined: 15 Oct 2010

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PostPosted: Fri 22 Oct, 2010 3:48 pm    Post subject: Sallet style question         Reply with quote

As part of piecing together my first 15th century kit (beside this I'm maintaining a 'test-subject' 13th cent. one), I'm thinking about getting a sallet sometime in the near future.
However, I have no idea what specifics I should look out for as to the 'style' question of the helmet: rims, patterns, type of neck protection, type of visor... you name it.

The timeframe is to be early 15th century, north-east German / Frisian (Groningen to be precise). Social status would be more or less that of a professional town guard.
As I'm not a member of any particular group, whose dresscode I could stick to, nor have any sources of my own on this topic I decided to turn to you. Any additional tips, tricks, hints, ideas and recomendations to the kit-to-be as a whole would, of course, be welcome as wel.

After browsing his goods at a fair this summer I'm inclinied to get it custom made to my head size from the Czech Armoury Marek (http://www.armorymarek.com/), but again; I'm open for suggestions - anything that will fit within my budget of 250 euro's.
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William Knight




Location: Mid atlantic, US
Joined: 02 Oct 2005

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 7:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you're going with early 15th century german you're better off with a kettle hat or some sort of skullcap/cerveille. Sallets are mostly a later 15th century thing in Germany, by my understanding.
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Lucas Simms




Location: Washington
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2010 10:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with Will.
The earliest sallets I've seen were from about 1470.

Lucas
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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
Joined: 13 Mar 2007

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 3:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These are very nice. Ande from southern Germany. But then again, how early 15th century? Bacinets are most common during the first quarter. Apart from kettlehats that it.


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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are sallets that date from the 1st half of the century, though they seem to be nearer to 1450 than to 1400 in general.

-The Met has one that may date as early as 1430. It could be Italian or Flemish
-The Royal Armouries has one dated to 1430-1440 which is probably north Italian

I guess the question is how early in the 15th century you're intending to portray. If you're looking at the 1st quarter of the century, a sallet would be ahead of its time. The 2nd quarter it's less of a stretch.

Happy

ChadA

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Christian Henry Tobler
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Location: Oxford, CT
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PostPosted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As Chad said, and it might be helpful to note that by the time of Talhoffer's 1459 Fechtbuch, we see pretty evolved 'Gothic' style sallets.

Cheers,

CHT

Christian Henry Tobler
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

All Austrian/German/Italian, first quarter of 15th c.


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 12:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

By the way, Johan, this site is a rich source of images for your period and culture:

http://www.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/realonline/

Find details of arms, armour, clothing, etc.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Johan K





Joined: 15 Oct 2010

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 1:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks alot for the feedback!

Seems good I posted this up here before wasting money on something 'wrong'.
The timeframe I'm looking into is really the first quarter of the centrury: 1400 to 1410, perhaps 1425. In any case too early for mainstream sallet use on what is effectively the periphery of the continent, as it appears.

From the things I'd heard I discarded kettlehats as still being in use during 15th century for some reason (even wikipedia proves this notion wrong I'm afraid!)... But still, the overall question stands: what style would I be looking at (considering more or less local (say, Flemish) production)?
Would they still have the wide 'flat' brim as we see on 13th, early 14th century ones, or would a central rim (bending towards the future sallet) perhaps with bevor be more appropiate?
- Or is my question plain ignorant & pointless as all types were worn throughout the ages... Happy


*EDIT* @ Sean: Hadn't seen your full posts yet, thanks! exactly what I need!
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The most common style seems to have been deep, with a down-turned brim. The presence of sights in the brim of some examples suggest how deep they got.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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