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Scott Hrouda




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Sep, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Houndskull Visor Breaths, Opinions Needed         Reply with quote

I am contemplating drilling more breaths into the houndskull visor of my bascinet in order to have better visibility.

Would it be completely out of character to mirror the breaths pattern from the right side to the left side where there are currently none? Many of the historical examples found on myArmoury and elsewhere show only one side of the helm making me pause before drilling. Would anyone have a picture of a historical example and/or an opinion to share?



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Colt Reeves





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PostPosted: Thu 30 Sep, 2010 7:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, you probably already know this, but I've heard that the left side was left holeless because that is the side most likely to receive the end of a lance or other blow. The stronger that side the better was the theory, although I'm sure somewhere is an exception.
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Christopher Finneman




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Sep, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know some examples I seen had small lil openings (like lips) at the bottom of the visor. Not sure if yours does or not.
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Sep, 2010 8:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott,
Check out your copy of Curtis' 2,500 Years of European Helmets. Page 61 shows breaths on the left side (assuming the picture negative isn't flipped).

There are a couple in the Curtis book and one or two in the German book Europaische Helme that show some breaths surrounding the edge of the opening near the mouth (under the beak). See below.

Obviously holes under the beak won't do much for visibility, but might help airflow. It seems to have been more common to pierce one side only, though at least 1 example exists with the left side pierced.



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Bascinet from Museum fur Deutsches Geschichte

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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Oct, 2010 1:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another option would be to drill a single row of holes in the bottom edge of both your occulars, as shown in this bascinet from the spotlight article.



Also, I think that this bascinet has holes in both sides.
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Oct, 2010 8:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Colt Reeves wrote:
Well, you probably already know this, but I've heard that the left side was left holeless because that is the side most likely to receive the end of a lance or other blow.

You are correct Colt. It has always been my boyhood dream to joust, although time is running short for me to punish my old body in that manner. I have ridden with my wife's family (before they sold their horses) and I currently fight rattan combat, I've just never put the two together. I'll keep dreaming. Happy

Christopher Finneman wrote:
I know some examples I seen had small lil openings (like lips) at the bottom of the visor. Not sure if yours does or not.

My inexpensive knockoff bascinet does have the openings you speak of, they're just not raised properly, thus difficult to see in the photograph.

Chad Arnow wrote:
There are a couple in the Curtis book and one or two in the German book Europaische Helme that show some breaths surrounding the edge of the opening near the mouth (under the beak). See below. Obviously holes under the beak won't do much for visibility, but might help airflow. It seems to have been more common to pierce one side only, though at least 1 example exists with the left side pierced.

Thank you Chad. In the Curtis book and a few others have noticed this as well. I've also noticed a much smaller number of breaths (sometimes in a cross shaped pattern) on the left side in a few examples. My issue is visibility, not breathing. The guys at our weekly practice have all figured out that I'm unable to see (and thus counter) a shot originating from low and left. Eek!

Sander Marechal wrote:
Another option would be to drill a single row of holes in the bottom edge of both your occulars, as shown in this bascinet from the spotlight article.

I have also contemplated this. I love the bascinet you highlighted and I've spent some effort trying to find photographs from other angles. I agree that there appears to be many breaths on the left side, but I'm being cautious considering the state of preservation. Could we be seeing light due to many breaths on the left side (ideal for my inquiry), a few breaths and a little rust-through, or a whole bunch of rust-through?

The bascinet that Sander illustrated was one of the main reasons I started this thread. That breath pattern is the direction I'd like to go, I just am very unsure about the left side of this particular visor.

Thank you everyone. The replies thus far are generating more questions than answers. That's the name of our game. Big Grin

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Oct, 2010 10:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My Valentine armoury Bascinet has 5 breath holes on the left side that form a cross pattern or a central hole and 4 holes forming a diamond pattern.

There is a second vision slit on the under side of the snout that is the same on both sides and is made up of a series of closely spaced rectangular vertical slots with rounded top and bottom: This does make it easier to see a bit what is coming from below.

The small 5 holes on the left side don't improve vision very much although one might be conscious of movement on that side and it probably helps a little bit with air flow.



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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Oct, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think I may have found the perfect answer at The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. I don't know why I didn't think of this bascinet as it's pictured in many armour books along with the (in)famous brigandine reconstruction.

While there are fewer breaths on the left side of the visor, they are all located on the lower portion of the snout which is exactly the direction I'm "blind" to incoming shots.

Quote:
The helmet, a type known as a visored bascinet, was not part of the Chalcis find, but dates from about the same period.

Does anyone know more about this particular bascinet?



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The Metropolitan Museum of Art

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Oct, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I finally got around to drilling my bascinet visor with breaths on the left side. I simply made a template of the right side breaths and flipped it over. The results look OK and the visibility is 100% improved. Happy

I've included some more inspirational photographs as well.

I can't wait until practice next week. Big Grin



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...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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