Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Cape project for some Rapier and Cape fencing Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Jon Wolfe




Location: Orlando, FL
Joined: 01 Aug 2007

Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri 06 Aug, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: Cape project for some Rapier and Cape fencing         Reply with quote

My study group is going to be moving on from fencing with the single rapier, to a rapier paired with another weapon: dagger, rotella, cape, etc. So, I find myself on a search on how to make a cape that is made to look and act like what an origin piece would behave, from the time of Capoferro's and Fabris's manuals, so early to mid 1600s, but not necessarily made of historically accurate materials. So, for those who may have gone down this same road before, what suggestions might you have for me? I've looked around online for templates and designs, and have found something that seems reasonable enough. I'm looking to make the equivalent of what a blunt training sword would be, compared to a sharpened steel sword, so I'm not really looking to make anything that is 100% historically accurate to match a kit that I'm putting together, just something that could hold up to training and free-play. I'm prepared to throw out my own research, should someone suggest anything that's better than I've been able to dig-up so far, so please, any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
View user's profile Send private message
Jon Wolfe




Location: Orlando, FL
Joined: 01 Aug 2007

Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sun 08 Aug, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Forgot to mention some of the materials I was considering: Duck Cloth, Burlap, Outdoor Canvas, and Felt.
View user's profile Send private message
Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Wed 11 Aug, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jon Wolfe wrote:
Forgot to mention some of the materials I was considering: Duck Cloth, Burlap, Outdoor Canvas, and Felt.

Are these materials you already have?

Fulled wool would be a common choice for a cape or cloak. It's not that hard to find and I've never paid more than $6 a yard for it.

The materials you mention above don't actually move the same as the fulled wool. It's like a good blunt. A good blunt is made from the same stuff as a sharp.

Cheers,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jon Wolfe




Location: Orlando, FL
Joined: 01 Aug 2007

Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu 12 Aug, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fulled Wool, eh? I've never heard of that, does it happen to go by any other names? I did get an amount of micro suede, I haven't touched it with scissors, needle or thread, yet. So, I could still return it if that may not be the right choice.
View user's profile Send private message
Glennan Carnie




Location: UK
Joined: 23 Aug 2006

Posts: 289

PostPosted: Thu 12 Aug, 2010 11:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fulling is a process done to the wool after weaving, whereby the nap is raised and felted to increase the water-resistance of the wool.

A fulled wool tends to look felted and uniform:

Not fulled:



Fulled:



(Oh, and at $6 / yard I'd stay away from any naked flames as the wool is likely to have a high synthetic content! Not that that should be a problem when fencing)
View user's profile Send private message
Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Thu 12 Aug, 2010 11:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jon Wolfe wrote:
Fulled Wool, eh? I've never heard of that, does it happen to go by any other names? I did get an amount of micro suede, I haven't touched it with scissors, needle or thread, yet. So, I could still return it if that may not be the right choice.


Fulled wool is what a wool winter coat is made from.

The micro suede is entirely a historic for this project. Use the wool you'll be happier in the end.

Cheers,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Thu 12 Aug, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glennan Carnie wrote:

(Oh, and at $6 / yard I'd stay away from any naked flames as the wool is likely to have a high synthetic content! Not that that should be a problem when fencing)


Nope. I just shop online or at a discount store.

Cheers,
steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jessica Finley
Industry Professional



Location: Topeka, Kansas
Joined: 29 Dec 2003

Posts: 110

PostPosted: Thu 12 Aug, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Links to fabrics are always helpful. http://www.fabric.com/apparel-fashion-fabric-...abric.aspx

This is a wool blend (sometimes they carry 100%, just not right now) that is a very good weight for a cloak, and if you wash it in hot water and dry it on high in the drier before making your garment, you don't need to line or sew the edges. It fulls well enough with that simple process that it enables you to make period edge treatments.

For you, however, as a new sewer, this is a boon as all you must do is simply buy enough yardage (for a 16th c. cloak that's only 2 yards), fold it into quarter and cut your 1/4 circle on the proper sides. Cut a similar and small 1/4 circle on the point of the folds, slit down the center, and you have your cape. Add ties as a finish, if you actually wish to wear it.... maybe a collar if you want to go even further, and voila!

Simple simple simple. You can do this with little-to-no sewing, if you use the right fabric.

enjoy!
Jess

Selohaar Fechtschule, Free Scholar
http://www.selohaar.org/fechtschule

Fühlen Designs, Owner/Designer/Seamstress
http://fuhlendesigns.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Alexandria, VA USA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Reading list: 43 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 4,146

PostPosted: Thu 12 Aug, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Now, I don't want to push you away from making something historically accurate (as I'm all about people going the accuracy route), but since you're just looking for something for free play, almost anything will work. The material needs to have a little bit of weight to it (so a single layer bed sheet might be too light, for example), but otherwise almost any large sheet of cloth will be just fine for rapier and cape techniques to work.
Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jon Wolfe




Location: Orlando, FL
Joined: 01 Aug 2007

Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu 12 Aug, 2010 7:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok, so could I get an amount of wool or wool felt and just use that hot washing and drying process, and get good results? I live really close to Joann store, so acquiring the material is only a matter of a short car ride, so no having to pay and wait for shipping.
View user's profile Send private message
Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Thu 12 Aug, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jon Wolfe wrote:
I live really close to Joann store, so acquiring the material is only a matter of a short car ride

Do you have a fabric wholesaler near you? I'm able to save a ton of money in the Twin Cities at SR Harris.

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
View user's profile Send private message
Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
Joined: 07 Oct 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Thu 12 Aug, 2010 8:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wouldn't some thick fleece work? The kind that kids make scarves and stuff out of. I saw someone do a demo of this at a renfair and that's what they used. It dries quick, doesn't fray at all, and is similarish to wool. It's also like $2-3 a yard or less
Z
View user's profile Send private message
Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Reading list: 17 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 671

PostPosted: Thu 12 Aug, 2010 11:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Zach Gordon wrote:
Wouldn't some thick fleece work? The kind that kids make scarves and stuff out of. I saw someone do a demo of this at a renfair and that's what they used. It dries quick, doesn't fray at all, and is similarish to wool. It's also like $2-3 a yard or less


This is what I am going to use for my girlfriend's cape. She's allergic to real wool. The only downside is that fleece is really light and doesn't drape and flow the way real wool does. I'm hoping to solve this by adding a linen liner to make it heavier.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jessica Finley
Industry Professional



Location: Topeka, Kansas
Joined: 29 Dec 2003

Posts: 110

PostPosted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 5:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jon Wolfe wrote:
Ok, so could I get an amount of wool or wool felt and just use that hot washing and drying process, and get good results? I live really close to Joann store, so acquiring the material is only a matter of a short car ride, so no having to pay and wait for shipping.


You can do that, if it's 100% wool and it's woven in a way to allow it. Many wool suitings, for example, are NOT woven to allow this. So it won't always work, no. There are many things at play.

Commercial Wool felt is almost always largely polyester and glue. I would strongly suggest never making clothing out of it.

Finally, yes, you can go to Joann's. Unless you have the 40% off coupon they sometimes offer, however, you WILL be paying nearly twice the price that you can from Fabrics.com or similar places. I have a Joann's down the street too. I only go there for thread.

Jess

PS - Edited to add: Fleece in my opinion is too light and has a tendency to stretch. However, for a project like this, you could double it up (Fleece doesn't need to be sewn either) and stitch them together quickly and easily. It would then be too THICK to act like a wool cloak, but would have the weight to do so. That's what this is all about, a balance of weight, movement and thickness against cost, accuracy, and ease of construction. *G* Good times!

Selohaar Fechtschule, Free Scholar
http://www.selohaar.org/fechtschule

Fühlen Designs, Owner/Designer/Seamstress
http://fuhlendesigns.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
Joined: 14 Jan 2010

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 7:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

go to a thrift store... $5 wool blanket or if you get lucky brocade curtains or even luckyer you might find an opera cape in the ladies section.
View user's profile Send private message
Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
Joined: 14 Jan 2010

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sander Marechal wrote:
Zach Gordon wrote:
Wouldn't some thick fleece work? The kind that kids make scarves and stuff out of. I saw someone do a demo of this at a renfair and that's what they used. It dries quick, doesn't fray at all, and is similarish to wool. It's also like $2-3 a yard or less


This is what I am going to use for my girlfriend's cape. She's allergic to real wool. The only downside is that fleece is really light and doesn't drape and flow the way real wool does. I'm hoping to solve this by adding a linen liner to make it heavier.


You really don't wnat to use fleece. You could make a really nice cape out of brocade.
View user's profile Send private message
Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Christopher Treichel wrote:
go to a thrift store... $5 wool blanket or if you get lucky brocade curtains or even luckyer you might find an opera cape in the ladies section.

I would not recommend a $5 blanket. They are usually cheaply felted instead of being fulled wool.

And since they are cheaply felted they tend to come apart too easily. You can make one this way, but it won't last long.

Unless you get lucky at the thrift store.

Cheers,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
Joined: 14 Jan 2010

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cheaply felted? The only felted wool blankets I have ever seen have been from Kyrgistan and you could almost consider them carpets. Unless your referring to that polyester felt which doesn't count.

The average wool blanket you will find at thrift stores will either be old army blankets which are woven or say a sears blanket from the 50s which are also woven both should have a tag that will give you the fabric contents... If you find one that says Hudson Bay I would not cut it up. Both will be plenty strong. The exception to this will be the poly wool blankets from the 70's through present which are mostly polyester junk. If you have any doubt about the consistency of cloth... these days Jo-Ann Fabrics rarely sells 100% wool... Hancock still does but in both cases I would grab a few threads and go outside to test them with a lighter... if it melts, it has plastic in it and is no good.
View user's profile Send private message
Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Alexandria, VA USA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Reading list: 43 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 4,146

PostPosted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 2:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with Christopher. I used a piece of flannel that I found in some junk store for a couple of bucks for several years for fencing with cloak. Honestly, as long as the material isn't too ridiculously light or flimsy, almost any cloth will work just fine for the sake of fencing. Heck, you could get away with a beach towel, and I've seen those on sale for $1 before.

If you want a nice cloak to actually wear, well, that's a different story. Happy It all depends on exactly what you want.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jon Wolfe




Location: Orlando, FL
Joined: 01 Aug 2007

Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all very much for your time, but I think I'm going to stick with my micro suede, for its fray resistance, but mainly because I've already bought it. Blush If one day I do wish to make an historically accurate cape, I'll definitely remember the information you all have imparted to me. Again, thank you all very much.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Cape project for some Rapier and Cape fencing
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum