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Connor Lynch





Joined: 27 Jul 2010

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PostPosted: Wed 28 Jul, 2010 10:13 am    Post subject: The chronological order of medeival helmets         Reply with quote

I am wondering what would be the order in time of helmets throughout the middle ages for Germany i am going to list a name of helmets in what i think would be the evolution of the helmet for only the middle ages and if im wrong just correct me #1 Spangenhelm 9thc and 10thc #2 Kettle hat 10thc and 11thc #3 Cervelliere 11thc and 12thc #4 Great helm 13thc and 14thc #5 Open faced bascinet 14thc - 14thc #6 Visored bascinet 14thc-15thc #7 Great bascinet (bulbed visor) 15thc-15thc #8 Sallet 15thc-15thc #9 confusion :Burgonet? Close helm? Morion? Lobster tail? 16thc-17thc
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Jul, 2010 10:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's impossible to pin down an evolution for the helmet in general. It's slightly more reasonable for a given type (e.g., sallet) but there are so many parallel branches of each type that it really isn't possible to establish clear beginning and end points. One of the complicating problems is that you'll see just about every kind of helmet in artwork of the late 15th c.--sallets, kettle hats, proto-burgonets, close helmet/armets, steel caps, bascinet, scale, etc.--sometimes all in a single image! There was enormous overlap. I regularly see in Austrian and German art of the period helmets I would have thought to be long outdated.
-Sean

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James Head





Joined: 09 Mar 2008

Posts: 127

PostPosted: Wed 28 Jul, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: The chronological order of medeival helmets         Reply with quote

Connor Lynch wrote:
#1 Spangenhelm 9thc and 10thc #2 Kettle hat 10thc and 11thc #3 Cervelliere 11thc and 12thc #4 Great helm 13thc and 14thc #5 Open faced bascinet 14thc - 14thc #6 Visored bascinet 14thc-15thc #7 Great bascinet (bulbed visor) 15thc-15thc #8 Sallet 15thc-15thc #9 confusion :Burgonet? Close helm? Morion? Lobster tail? 16thc-17thc


This list is waaay to generalized. Medieval history wasn't like some video game where everything upgraded to the next best version when you reached a new age.
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James Head





Joined: 09 Mar 2008

Posts: 127

PostPosted: Wed 28 Jul, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I want to publicly apologize to Connor about my previous post. I still feel that trying to fit Medieval History into clean lists and charts is not a good idea, but I could have said it better.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Jul, 2010 5:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are a few issues to consider like early adoption of a helm type or style before it became common or before we have proof that it was in use and late use of out of style helms for various reasons like their being part of a civic armoury and issued in case of an emergency or siege ? The rich and even the not so rich Knights would be motivated to be in style but common soldiers, mercenaries or militias might use a mix and match of older and newer kit.

The various helmet types could coexist in usage or at least have a great deal of overlap between being new types not yet popular, greatly in common use and still being used after falling out f style.

I can also see a helm type slowly becoming popular over decades and centuries and being " improved " or " evolve " in style with a long period form early use to total obsolescence.

In some cases a type might suddenly become popular in a very short time: This might be due to the design being so good that it " sells ' itself or if adopted by a king or high noble all the lesser nobles would be rushing to adopt the style.

Personal preferences and wearability/comfort is also an influence: The closed helms being highly protective but restrictive of ventilation and situational awareness could be put aside to wear an open faced sallet, with or without a movable visor, or some form of kettle hat. Knight would probably own more than one kind of helm, if rich enough, and use what was best for the type of fighting expected.

So for a typology or chronology of helms one would have to establish date for early use,popularity followed by late usage and take note of periods of use overlaps. One should also consider geographical/cultural preference and areas where very out of date kit would still be worn.

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