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Chris Artman




Location: USA
Joined: 12 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 13 Jul, 2010 12:10 am    Post subject: Red Cliff         Reply with quote

I thought Red Cliff was a fun movie, very entertaining imo....
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Jul, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very much. But I wonder how accurate their armor and weapons were?
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Nicholas Rettig




Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Joined: 12 Jul 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 13 Jul, 2010 2:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Did you see the five hour Chinese version or the edited international version, I've only seen the Chinese version and well let's just say I was really aware it was five hours long. As for the weapons accuracy nothing stood out as completely anachronistic though I do think there is some controversy as to whether Guan Yu actually had a Guan Dao, but it is accurate to legend. I don't remember anything in the film that struck me as wrong but all I can remember are the Jian, the spear and a repeating crossbow (that was in there right) which were all around back then. As for the armor I don't know enough to say. As for usage in the film well it a John Woo film Laughing Out Loud .
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Brogdon Combs




Location: Tallahassee, Florida, USA
Joined: 22 Jan 2009

Posts: 52

PostPosted: Tue 13 Jul, 2010 4:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This movie is based off of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms Saga, is it not?

If so, I believe I heard of this around a year ago on SBG, and then forgot the name.... I MUST SEE IT! RoTK is amazing, one of my favorite video game series and quite a good book (or 3) as well.

I guess I got a bit off-topic there, sorry. Anyway, thanks for reminding me of this movie, provided it is what I think it is.

-Brogdon

"Here's to you, mister pirate-ship-captain! With your endless booty calls and a violent streak that makes Grand Theft Auto look like Super Mario Kart, only you could bring the wooden leg back into fashion, and only you could fight three men at a time with a patch over one eye and a hook for a hand."
-Strongblade.com
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Nicholas Rettig




Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Joined: 12 Jul 2006

Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue 13 Jul, 2010 5:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Supposedly it is based off of the actual historical events more so the the novel, and it only covers one battle as opposed to the entire war, but who knows, it seemed fairly romantacised to me.
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A Visser




Location: Amsterdam
Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue 13 Jul, 2010 5:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The main storyline is historical, as well as the characters. The rest is romanticized. This goes for a lot of Chinese movies. They take a lot of historical events or persons and make a movie out of that. Red cliff is probably one of the movies most close to history that I know of. I think that weapons and clothing are as accurate as you could expect from a movie with a budget as this.

Three kingdoms is an extremely popular story in China. Together with the monkey king is it the most well known. A lot of movies have been made using these themes. Two other nice ones are: Three Kingdoms: Resurrection of the Dragon (2008) and Hua Mulan (2009).
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Chris Artman




Location: USA
Joined: 12 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 13 Jul, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I stayed away from historical accuracy since there is a lot of the usual "super man general" stuff going on. You know, the few guys who can kill 200 people themselves in 2 minutes and stop 100 spears. However, it seemed a lot less than usual and it was a lot of fun!

The Blu Ray quality is awesome. Great sound and picture. The whole room was shaking at times. I also watched "Warlords" on Blu ray a couple weeks ago, which was enjoyable, but "Red Cliff" seems to stand out from the rest. Anyhow, I really enjoyed it on Blu Ray. It is the extended 5 hour version on two discs: Part one and Part two.

I enjoyed the formations and strategies, albiet they were more like choreographed dances, but it sure was done very well. The story was one of the best as well. In any case, it was enough to make me want to post about it.
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Nicholas Rettig




Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Joined: 12 Jul 2006

Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue 13 Jul, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eh, for me the anti-war message at the end of the film felt like having your cake and eating it too. They spent the 3/4 of the film glorifying war and the people who wage it and the the ending consists of of the horror of war and how it destroys people. It's like if Deepthroat ended with a message that abstinence is always the best policy, but still the fight scenes are fun. But back to the weapons, can anyone tell me when the Guandao first was used and would Guan Yu have actually used one?
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 08 May 2009
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Jul, 2010 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nicholas Rettig wrote:
But back to the weapons, can anyone tell me when the Guandao first was used and would Guan Yu have actually used one?


The earliest use disappears in the fog of time. The weapon was alive and well during the Ming, with surviving examples, usage in manuals, etc. I don't know of any pre-Ming surviving examples (but I haven't searched specifically). Appears earlier in art; wikipedia tells me Tang and Song. No earlier known depictions.

As for the weapons and armour in general, it looks better (in the stills; haven't seen movie) than most Chinese movies, some of which have extremely fanciful armour, and most have far too much influence from later theatre and opera, and martial arts.

This is set in a time from which very, very little armour has survived. Post dates the detailed and very useful Han tomb figures, predates most surviving art and artefact. The most valuable sources are (or were, a decade or so ago) tomb drawings and some, usually small, tomb guardian figurines. These, and later art and theatrical costume, appear to be the source for the helmets.

The armies are forests of spears, the scabbard slides are authentic - too many surviving scabbard slides to get this wrong - and there is some nice-at-first glance lamellar and scale. That's a good start.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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