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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > cervelliere question Reply to topic
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Sabina Kuznetsov





Joined: 01 Mar 2008

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 6:09 pm    Post subject: cervelliere question         Reply with quote

Hi, I'm getting my armor together and want to wear a cervelliere under my helm.
All I can find are references to rounded ones, but I kind of like the one used in the movie Ivanhoe.
My question, is the one used in that movie an authentic design or not? I would really hate to go through the trouble having one made if it isn't.

Thank You.
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not sure I know what helmet you are talking about.... which Ivanhoe? Pictures of it would help.

RPM
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Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
Joined: 02 Sep 2008

Posts: 239

PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If Sabina speaks of a cervelliere under the mail coif it can be this one:


I don't remember a period illustration with a similiar arrangement, and I'm very dubious about it. An helm like this one, even withou the maschera, http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2262 woul be vey difficul to wear under the coif.

I use a round cervelliere under my mail coif with great results:


You can try to search something in some documents, like the Maciejowsky Bible
http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/maciejowski_bible.htm

Hopefull it will not be so hard to say if a particular warrior wear this type of combination
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 7:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The helmet in questions defintely exists, and is in use in the 12th, early 13th century.
However, I wouldn't call it a cervilere; it is a seperate kind of helmet. Also, it had its heyday before the practice of wearing a cervilere under a great helmet became fashionable. (It is actually one of the ancestors of the greathelm.)

The sequence of coif and cervillere seems to have been a matter of personal taste. It is also posible that one would wear it on top of the coif, but put it back on the head after taking the coif dow, as seen in this scene from Maciowsky;


For the cylindrical look, you could also simply make a cylindrical padded coif... (which would make sense under a cylindrical helmet...)

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Sabina Kuznetsov





Joined: 01 Mar 2008

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes the helm that Gabriele shows is the very one I speak of, sorry for not being more specific.
So then the way they wear it under the great helm is incorrect?
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To wear under the Great Helm the Cervelière should be very close fitting and the Great Helm big enough to fit over Cervelière and coif and the padded cloth coif under the maille coif. ( If the Cervelière is worn under the maille the padded coif need not be very thick as the most " uncomfortable part of the maille coif is not in contact with the bones of the head. If one wears the Cervelière over the coif then the padding between maille and head become essential for comfort ).

Now even with a very close to the head Cervelière there should be at least a little padding inside the Cervelière itself in addition to any other padded coif.

The combination of padded coif, mail coif, Cervelière does make the circumference of the head fairly big so one should make sure that one's great Helm is big enough to fit over it all: I have 3 Great Helms and none of them are large enough to fit over my Cervelière so that just buying one without checking the compatibility of the sizes first may lead to their being unusable together.

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