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Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Jun, 2010 7:41 am    Post subject: Does anyone have (access to) "Aspilogia II"?         Reply with quote

Is there anyone here who has (or has access to) "Aspilogia II" by Anthony Richard Wagner and T. D. Tremlett? I have a reference that points there. I would greatly appreciate if someone can look it up for me.

The reference is from "History of the Maltese Cross". It's about reference #14.

Quote:
Cecil Humphery-Smith in his book on Hugh Revel #13 writes; "In the Matthew Paris shields #14 Gules, a cross argent appears for the Hospital, though some versions draw a cross formy throughout in place of a plain cross. On contemporary seals the cross is already splayed slightly at the ends #15.


Quote:
#13Humphery-Smith, Cecil. R. J. Hugh Revel - Master of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem, 1258-1277, Phillimore & Co, Ltd, West Sussex, 1994, preface xi-xii.
#14 Humphery-Smith's footnote 1. London, Tremlett and Wagner, Aspilogia II, Rolls of Arms, Henry III, p25. See also C. R. Humphery_Smith, Anglo-Norman Armory Two, An Ordinary of Thirteenth Century Coat of Arms (1985), p.315, though some versions of this coat appear with arms of the cross throughout.
#15 Humphery-Smith's footnote 2. E. J. King. The Seals of the Order of St John of Jerusalem (1932), plate iii, fig.2; Revue Archéologique, New Series, xxxii (1876), p.237; and L.-C. Doüet d'Arcq, Collection des sceaux (1963), 9881.


Could anyone take a look at the rolls of Henry III, p25 and tell me what's there? Is it text describing the colours of the hospitallers? A drawing? Is it of a shield or of a banner? If you could scan that page, or the relevant part of it, I would greatly appreciate it.

I am hunting for more evidence that the Knights Hospitallers carried red shields with a white cross, even before 1278.
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John T Miller




Location: Raleigh, NC
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Reading list: 11 books

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PostPosted: Mon 21 Jun, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sander, the shield described is red (Gules) with a white (argent) cross. (simple straight cross.) The other referenced version refers to a cross formy, or formée (or patee, or pattée, patty). See: http://www.rarebooks.nd.edu/digital/heraldry/colors.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross.

"Gules, a cross argent" is simple heraldry-speak for a red field with a white cross.

John Miller
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Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Reading list: 17 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 671

PostPosted: Mon 21 Jun, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks. I already knew what the text means though. What I am hoping to find in "Aspilogia II" is a picture of drawing by Matthew Paris of a Hospitaller shield. I have found images my Paris showing red and white banners, but no shields so far. He did draw two red and white shields, but one is for the arms of Peter of Savoy and the other of the arms of William de Visci.
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T. Hamilton




Location: United States
Joined: 30 Dec 2009

Posts: 85

PostPosted: Mon 21 Jun, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You might try here. I didn't go through all the listings, there's a lot, but it looks like you can download digitized versions of the pages. They had numerous listings for Matthew Paris. Hope this helps.

http://standish.stanford.edu/bin/search/simpl...p;offset=0

"What we do in life echoes in eternity."
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John T Miller




Location: Raleigh, NC
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon 21 Jun, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sander,

Sorry, after I posted I thought that maybe I had misunderstood your question.

Have you tried google books?

Also, Archive CD offers a copy of "Rolls of Arms - Henry III " for a reasonable price

http://www.archivecdbooks.ie/cgi-bin/sh000002...8#aGBI8098

I've never dealt with them, so I can't recommend it, but it may be worth checking out. (Especially since they're offering a summer sale - 50% off.)

John
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Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Reading list: 17 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 671

PostPosted: Mon 21 Jun, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you both. Those are excellent resources.
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