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Martin Erben




Location: Germany, Düsseldorf
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Mar, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject: Tang width?         Reply with quote

Hello everyone

During making my last blade, i was wondering if there is a formula or something with which I can calculate the needed width of a tang..... The blade I'm working on, has a width a the base on 4cm/ 1,569inch, and the tang has a width of 2cm/0,79 inch between the shoulders and tapers to 8mm/0,31 inches to the end. The blade has a length of 80cm/31,5 inch (without tang).
I've been going with tangs of this width quite a time /they are around 5.5mm/0,22 inches thick) and never heard about problems with the from the peoples/customers who use/abuse my blades. In spite of this, i have a strange feeling with the tang width during this project....What do you think, do I have to make it wider, or won't there be any problems?

Best regards
Martin
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 649

PostPosted: Fri 19 Mar, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Martin,
I do not want to sound like an oracle, here.
There are many people here who know much more than me, but there are many variables that determine if your width is good or not.
Material, geometry, heat treatment, these things can make a difference.

Ciao
Maurizio
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Martin Erben




Location: Germany, Düsseldorf
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Fri 19 Mar, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

sorry I didn't tell you.....
The Steel is a CK60. i'ts for a sharp XVIIc blade, and the hardness will be 58HRC. The blade will be made sharp.
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Likes: 3 pages
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 649

PostPosted: Fri 19 Mar, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't thought to the geometry of the blade.
I thought about the geometry of the tang, no edges, but radii of curvature. Your blade is very hard, does not mean that it is good for this material
Your heat treatment is martensitic.
Use your blade should be fine, abuse is not the same thing.
Increases as much as possible the tang, consistent with the size of the grip.
Or change material.
A austempering increases the resistance. (sometimes 30%)
I hope that this is helpfull.

Ciao
Maurizio
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,176

PostPosted: Fri 19 Mar, 2010 11:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maurizio D'Angelo wrote:
I don't thought to the geometry of the blade.
I thought about the geometry of the tang, no edges, but radii of curvature. Your blade is very hard, does not mean that it is good for this material
Your heat treatment is martensitic.
Use your blade should be fine, abuse is not the same thing.
Increases as much as possible the tang, consistent with the size of the grip.
Or change material.
A austempering increases the resistance. (sometimes 30%)
I hope that this is helpful.


I would add that certain steels can be drawn back to softer on the tang and blade shoulders.

Many good swords are made to 50 HRC/52 HRC but 58 HRC would be O.K. depending on steel type. ( I don't know myself if the steel you are using is optimum at this hardness or not, but certain steels would be ).

One sword I purchased from Tinker: Quoted from his site, http://www.tinkerswords.com/Page%203.html

Quote:
" Weight: 3lbs 4 oz
Sword in the style of Longswords of the second half of the 14th C. The blade is Marquenched 5160 spring steel and is differential tempered in three zones- the first of which is the tang, shoulder and spine of the blade which is drawn back to HRc45-48. The edges from within 1 inch of the base of the blade to within 8 inches of the point are at HRc58-60. Lastly the 8 inches closest to the tip are drawn to approx HRc50-52. The first 21 inches of the blade (measured from the base) are of hexagonal cross-section. The hexagonal section of the blade has no significant distal taper. The remainder of the blade from there to the point is of diamond section and has a convex distal taper to the point. The blade's bevels are gently convex and meet to form the cutting edge without secondary edge bevels. "


Oh, here is a Spotlight Topic you might find useful even if I have to be immodest linking to it as it is a Topic I started. Wink
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=5255

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Likes: 3 pages
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 649

PostPosted: Sat 20 Mar, 2010 5:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:


I would add that certain steels can be drawn back to softer on the tang and blade shoulders.


good suggestion.
I must say that it should be done with great caution, to prevent damage is greater than the benefits.

Ciao
Maurizio
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