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Ben Welch




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2010 10:35 pm    Post subject: Best Side Sword suggestion?         Reply with quote

I'm not really shure if this is the right thread to post this.... I have studdied the 17th century Italian rapier dueling style but have recently taken an interest in the earlier Morazzo side sword style. I have been useing and am quite happy with my Hanwei Gustav rapier but this weapon does not meet either the durability or handeling of a spada da lato or similar weapons. So I've been on a bit of a quest in an attempt to find a decent, durable Italian side sword that won't cause my wallet to much torture. I've read all the reviews on such weapons in the review section as well as several on the Sword Forum Int. and am still left undecided. I have established the Del Tin early rapiers as my absolute max price range, with the Hanwei Side Sword being my lowest. The Hanwei blade I've heard alot of good things about, and yet I still worry that it won't stand up to extended heavy sparing. While the Del Tin blades are visually impressive hailed for their long life span, I can't help but worry about the the impressive weight (3 and a half pounds in some cases) and impressive price tag ($533 about). Please help me if you can!
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2010 11:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I direct your attention to Darkwood Armory, makers of sparring sideswords and rapiers.They have a good name with many members of this forum for making durable, well balanced swords - http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/index.php?main_...;cPath=2_6 Their prices are between those of Hanwei and Del Tin.
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Ben Welch




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PostPosted: Sat 13 Mar, 2010 8:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have noticed the Darkwood blades and actually quite like them. But my greatest concern are the effect the diffrent blade Options would have on the balence of the sword. Does anyone know the diffrence between the DA4SS 38" side sword blade and the DA3S 38" Spada blade?
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Sam Barris




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PostPosted: Sat 13 Mar, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I recommend an Arms & Armor Town Guard. Great little blade.
Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Ben Welch




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PostPosted: Sat 13 Mar, 2010 11:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The arms and armor town guard sword is very nice but at 840-ish dolars its kinda out of my price range. In thruth I have fallen in love with the Ablion Doge sword but that also blows my budget completely. I was thinking more in the range of the Del Tin Early Rapier

http://www.arts-swords.com/item/DT-DT5169.asp

or the Venetian Back sword.

http://www.arts-swords.com/item/DT-DT2159.asp

but I may end up setteling on a darkwood side sword design.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
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PostPosted: Sat 13 Mar, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is the Windlass Munich Town Guard at a moderate price. I have not handled it but the visual is quite like the A&A. It may be a bit wide and short in the blade for some tastes. It is an example I woudl probably disassemble for inspection and minor modifications upon receipt, as the hilt work may get rattling quickly. I do not know if it is peened or threaded.

A sword I have continued to enjoy for a decade (and more now) was the Windlass example of the Espada Ropera (Del Tin 5160 profile). There is a current surplus example that Windlass put together with that guard and pommel, with a rather clunky looking blade, then labeling it an Italian War Sword. As that sells quite cheaply, I have considered it for the hilt parts and adapting it to an older Del Tin/Windlass sword I have that I had and continue to pair, which is similar in handling and overall (a couple of inches shorter). Anyway, it may be an opportunity to Frankenstein at a nominal price.

Cheers

GC

My pair below astride the Patton reproduction


Last edited by Glen A Cleeton on Sat 13 Mar, 2010 7:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Hadrian Coffin
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Location: Oxford, England
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PostPosted: Sat 13 Mar, 2010 7:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good day,
Have you seen the A&A training weapons? The side sword trainer is right around $600, and is considerably higher quality than a DelTin.
Cheers

Historia magistra vitae est
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Ben Welch




Location: U.S
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PostPosted: Sat 13 Mar, 2010 9:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am a huge fan of the A&A blades, I was born I Minneapolis and go almost religiously to the ren fair where the show their wares as often as I can. But I find the idea of buying and modifying the windlass Italian war sword intriguing. Does anyone know if it's possible to buy a del tin or A&A blade sepreately so I could pair it that hilt?
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2010 7:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben Welch wrote:
I am a huge fan of the A&A blades, I was born I Minneapolis and go almost religiously to the ren fair where the show their wares as often as I can. But I find the idea of buying and modifying the windlass Italian war sword intriguing. Does anyone know if it's possible to buy a del tin or A&A blade sepreately so I could pair it that hilt?


I think you can order bare blade directly from Fulvio Del Tin.
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Jim Mearkle




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PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben Welch wrote:
I have noticed the Darkwood blades and actually quite like them. But my greatest concern are the effect the diffrent blade Options would have on the balence of the sword. Does anyone know the diffrence between the DA4SS 38" side sword blade and the DA3S 38" Spada blade?


The pommels are easily swapped out. Pick out a guard, tell them how you want it balanced, and ask them to choose a pommel and blade for you. From what the website says, I think the sidesword would have more blade presence, and the spada would have more neutral balance.

Jim
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Ben Welch




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PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all for all the help! I e-mailed Del Tin this morning for a quote on one of their blades and about possibly buying a blade by itself. Im also looking at the Darkwood side swords and finding them more and more atractive price wise. Im stil unshure which I will decide upon in the end.
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Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Mar, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had the same problem recently, needed a good side sword but at a lower budget then some of the offerings out there. I looked at the Hanwei side sword, but it was a bit lower end for me and I didn't like the balance. I also couldn't afford at the time any new swords from Darkwood, A&A or others beyond my $300-500 price range.

So I saw their Cromwell sword and ordered that one. Yes it is a later periord and a backsword, but it fulfills the role well as a side sword. So I and my sword instructor carefully dulled it down and rounded the edges to a safe thickness and it actually works out quite well for the $400 price. The balance is quite nice too and it gives really good hand protection in all of the cuts and guards one would use for side sword fighting.

One other thing I had to do was locktite the screws securing the guard to the pommel since they did come loose under hard use, but once that was done it hasn't given me a problem since. The best part is that it handles very good and it is decorative and comes with a scabbard (though a cheap one). So I can wear it on my kit too at the Ren faires and demos we do. I'm happy with it.

So this is another option you can go for if you want a side-sword to practice and spar with.
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Ben Welch




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Mar, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting, I hadnt thaught of useing the cromwell sword. It is very nice, but Its not nessisairly my style I generally perfer a more south european stylized hilt. But If I had to I would have done the same. Is it normal for Del Tin not to answer after 24 hours?
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Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Mar, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben Welch wrote:
Interesting, I hadnt thaught of useing the cromwell sword. It is very nice, but Its not nessisairly my style I generally perfer a more south european stylized hilt. But If I had to I would have done the same. Is it normal for Del Tin not to answer after 24 hours?


Well it worked for me, your mileage may vary. ;-)

Try Art Elwell at A Work of Art: http://www.a-work-of-art.net/[url], he sells Del Tins and might have one in stock. You could also try Kult of Athena too, they may have one also.[/url]
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Tue 16 Mar, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben Welch wrote:
I am a huge fan of the A&A blades, I was born I Minneapolis and go almost religiously to the ren fair where the show their wares as often as I can. But I find the idea of buying and modifying the windlass Italian war sword intriguing. Does anyone know if it's possible to buy a del tin or A&A blade sepreately so I could pair it that hilt?


You can buy one of A&A's training blades separately for $370.00 - http://www.arms-n-armor.com/rapier219.html (scroll down)

Too bad Albion hasn't yet released their Maestro Line Marozzo sidesword. That seems exactly what you are looking for, and wouldn't cost more that a Del Tin rapier.
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Ben Welch




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PostPosted: Tue 16 Mar, 2010 6:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Darkwood sells blades seperately I found out. Now the biggest question I have now is if anyone produces the crossbar/cup or basket seperately. If not I may attempt to use the windlass Italian war sword as silujested before.
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Harry J. Fletcher




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PostPosted: Tue 16 Mar, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Side Sword Hmmmmmmm         Reply with quote

Based on price the best deal going right now to my knowledge is the Hanwei Side Sword being sold by Kult of Athena for $133.00 at present. I considering getting one for myself. There is a good review of it on Sword Buyers Guide.com Wink Wink Wink

Don't tell my wife that I am thinking of getting this! Please!!!!! Worried Worried Worried Worried


Regards,

Harry Big Grin Big Grin

To Study The Edge of History
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Ben Welch




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PostPosted: Wed 17 Mar, 2010 11:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Laughing Out Loud Ha ha, no worries I have no idea what Im going to do if I get married, my girl friends far stingier than I. The Hanwei side sword is excelent Ive heard nothing but good about it and yet I cant bring myself to get it. Ive kind of brought myself to a solution, I really love the Schiavona its an awesome and beautiful weapon. I spent alot of time looking for a good cheaper one in the very begining, but found nothing but custom and high end pieces. So I decided to settle like bryce did, but instead of the cromwell Im going with the cold steel Horsemens basket hilt. Though technecally english it looks and feels similar to the Schiavona, so it works and a practice del tin blade can be purchased from darkwood. once again thanks for all your help! Big Grin
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Mar, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Side Sword Hmmmmmmm         Reply with quote

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:
Based on price the best deal going right now to my knowledge is the Hanwei Side Sword being sold by Kult of Athena for $133.00 at present.


I would only recommend it if price is the main factor. Its a decent sword for such a low price tag. However, Ben said he was looking for the "best" within his price range. Since Ben commented that Del Tin is his maximum price range (Del Tins getting into the $600 range), I wouldn't even consider the Hanwei. For training blunts, A&A would be my favorite (which is around that price range), with Darkwood being a very close second. Hanwei would *only* be if you can't justify that price tag, because it really isn't even close to the others (though I do appreciate that Hanwei does have these inexpensive swords that really aren't that shabby).

Ben, I know you expressed concern about the weight of Del Tins, but it really depends on the model. Some of them are wonderful an nimble, while others require that you go to the gym for a few weeks before handling. Though, the truth of the matter is that many originals run the full spectrum of weight as well, so it depends on what you're after.

Roger mentioned Albion's Maestro line sword. They had a prototype of it at WMAW, and it looks like it will be a very nice sword. Very comparable to the A&A training blunt, for a similar price tag. Alas, it isn't available yet, but hopefully it will be soon.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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JG Elmslie
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Mar, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben Welch wrote:
I really love the Schiavona its an awesome and beautiful weapon. I spent alot of time looking for a good cheaper one in the very begining, but found nothing but custom and high end pieces.D


have you taken a peek at Armourclass in glasgow, who amongst assorted bits, do a rather slinky schiavona, by any chance? their rebated blades are, in my opinion, superb for training, and they do an early style hilt with sharkskin grip for about $450 dollars, plus shipping. well within your budget range.

http://www.armourclass.co.uk/Data/Pages/17Century_Main2.htm for the webpage.
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