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William C Champlin




Location: San Antonio,Texas USA
Joined: 22 Sep 2004

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PostPosted: Wed 03 Mar, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject: Lifesaving service sword         Reply with quote

Here's one I've had for a while. I initially thought it was a Michigan militia sword, but some research leads me to think it's a Lifesaving Service sword. Any thoughts? thanks, W


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tweetchris
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William C Champlin




Location: San Antonio,Texas USA
Joined: 22 Sep 2004

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Wed 03 Mar, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Lifesaving Service sword         Reply with quote

It's Kirschbaum marked on one side and M.C.Lilley & Co. on the other. A nicely chased blade.W
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Wed 03 Mar, 2010 9:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is a very similar sword here that's described as "Lt. Charles B. Gatewood's Life Saving Service sword". Your sword appears to be in much better condition.
...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed 03 Mar, 2010 11:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've never heard of a "lifesaving service sword" before. Where's a reputable place with information?

M.

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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,836

PostPosted: Thu 04 Mar, 2010 4:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Hrouda wrote:
There is a very similar sword here that's described as "Lt. Charles B. Gatewood's Life Saving Service sword". Your sword appears to be in much better condition.


While Snyder lists some items belonging to Gatewood, the sword linked in question is not of his estate.

I'll pull some other books to refresh but the pattern goes back before the 1860s, while this particular sword was made sometime between 1865-1882 If I have the marking right for Liley). The knight's bust mark puts it in that timeline as well. So, third quarter would be a better timeline estimate (for good ol Snyder)The basic pattern has been associated with the navy and what became the Coast Guard. I believe there is a very nice Life Saving museum at the entry area to Chesapeake bay (Maryland, iirc). The two parties did not form the current Coast Guard until 1915, so more of Snyder's blurb is a bit off. The Revenue Marine and Revenue Cutter Service go back to post revolution days and had other responsibilities.


Hi Mike, you may be near enough to visit the museum

http://www.discoverourtown.com/MD/Ocean%20Cit...-1683.html

I'm remembering another sword showing up but don't have the thread off the top of my head (SFI A&M).

Cheers

GC
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,836

PostPosted: Thu 04 Mar, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are the Liliey dates

LILLEY AMES CO.
Columbus Ohio 1951-1953

THE LILLEY-AMES CO.
Columbus Ohio 1931-1951

THE LILLEY CO.
Columbus Ohio 1925-1931 THE M. C. LILLEY & CO
Columbus Ohio 1882-1925

M. C. LILLEY & CO
Columbus Ohio 1865-1882

MITCHELL C. LILLEY
Columbus Ohio up to 1865

Other notes put the treasury dept organizing the Life Saving Service in/between 1871 -1878, so that would narrow the distribution of the sword to that timeline between 1871 and 1882 but there may have been lots of entire swords marked that way, with the scabbard coming along later.. As mentioned, the basic sword pattern itself pre dates the American Civil War.

Cheers

GC
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Thu 04 Mar, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glen A Cleeton wrote:
While Snyder lists some items belonging to Gatewood, the sword linked in question is not of his estate.

My mistake. Mr. Snyder's poor sentence structure on this page lead me to a false conclusion.
Quote:
"UPDATED! (22 March ) -- Content added and updated. Check out the Lt. Charles B. Gatewood Indian Wars Campaign presentation sword and Life Saving Service sword on the US Militaria page."

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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