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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Zischagge with full face guard Reply to topic
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Adam D. Kent-Isaac




Location: Indiana
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Feb, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject: Zischagge with full face guard         Reply with quote

This armour from the Dresden Armoury shows a zischagge with a fully-covering face guard:



Anyone ever seen anything else like this?

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Norbert Keller




Location: Hungary
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Posts: 44

PostPosted: Mon 08 Feb, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi there!

It looks quite an interesting one. I 've never seen such an example. All I saw were varies of the usual leaflike mask/face protection.
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Jerzy Miklaszewski




Location: The Castle of Krak
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PostPosted: Tue 14 Feb, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a zischagge of Polish origin. They were very popular since the second part of XVIth century in Poland. They were adopted from Turkish neighbours (initially via Hungary). It is very characteristic, the beard-like face cover could be seen in many examples of Polish zishagges. They are very comfortable and good looking helmets, that both protect the head are fancy and comfy, you see in them very well. I have fought few turnaments in that, and it was great!
Russians had more turkish-like zishagge without the big tail.
I have always wondered about the origin of the lobstertail helmet in English army in XVIIth century. They were so similar to Polish-style zishagge, while there is no helmet in their armament that they could originate it from, so only Poland or Hungary remains.


Here's a link for one Polish Zischagge of this style, and have look into the gallery, it has many fine examples of european zischagges. (mostly western in origin, but some Polish)



http://www.flickr.com/photos/8203475@N02/

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Daniel Staberg




Location: Gothenburg/Sweden
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PostPosted: Tue 14 Feb, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The lobster tail helmet or "English Pot" is related to the "Dutch Pot" i.e the Dutch version of the Zischägge which was massproduced in vast number and exported both to England and elsewhere. English armourers made a few changes to the design such using a 3-bar visor rather than a single nasal bar and making the skull of the helmet in a simpler style.

"Hungarian" style helmets were being made in Germany aldready in the late 16th Century, at first they were only made for use by the hussar raised in Hungary and Habsburg borderlands such as Styria. But during the "Long War" with the Ottomans 1593-1606 they became popular with the 'Western' cavalrymen as well and they took the use of the "Hungarian pot" back to Germany and the Netherlands when the war ended.

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by a thousand unforseen circumstances, even when one has thorougly taken all
precautions that the most perfect military skill allows for."
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Lewis Ballard




Location: Houston, TX
Joined: 27 Dec 2009

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed 15 Feb, 2012 4:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Below is a link to a presentation/article by Michael Dziewulski of the National Museum in Cracow, Poland, of "Eastern Influence on Polish Arms" in pdf format, including some discussion of the zischagge.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/Dziewulski01.pdf

Given my orientation towards Eastern European arms and armor, it is not surprising that I found it a fascinating read.
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