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Gabriele Pratesi




Location: Florence, Italy
Joined: 30 Apr 2007

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan, 2010 5:09 am    Post subject: Barbuta needs an expertise         Reply with quote

Hello everyone,
I have a friend that has bought a "barbuta" for his collection. He asked me to give him an advic, but I'm not expert of such kind of historical helmets.
To me, even if the kind of steel seems to be old, it's an historismus probably made with an old steel sheet and tragically overpolished.
It has even a maker's punch in the back unknown to me.
I'm posting a few images and closeups, can anyone help us?
Thank you in advance,
Gabriele
[/img]



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interior.jpg
interior

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helmet.jpg
helmet

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punch.jpg
punch
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional



Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

Posts: 1,563

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan, 2010 6:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriele, More detailed pictures would be helpfull in aiding you with this piece. Based on the few images supplied, the helmet does appear to have been raised from a single piece of steel or iron which was the period technique for making finer barbutes ( I have seen munitions examples made from three pieces riveted together ). While the helmet has been cleaned the patination inside looks good, smooth and even and of more brownish color rather than the bright orange of active rust that can sometimes indicate an artificially induced rusting used on forgeries. The cleaned outside patination does look like the finish on other over cleaned original pieces i've seen. I am curious what the six holes right around the opening for the face may have been for, as there is already a distinct series of holes for a lining band present. Some more close up pics would help, inside and outside, maybe some of the medial ridge of the helmet.
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Gabriele Pratesi




Location: Florence, Italy
Joined: 30 Apr 2007

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan, 2010 6:17 am    Post subject: Barbuta needs an expertise         Reply with quote

Hello Allan,
many thanks for your prompt reply.
Here're other imgs of the helmet. I must say that the thickness of that is pretty good, not too thin nor too thick as sometimes replicas are.
I hope those will help you.



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back view

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lateral

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left.jpg
left

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ridge inside.jpg
ridge inside

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ridge.jpg
ridge outside
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional



Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

Posts: 1,563

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan, 2010 7:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interseting the second set of holes makes the full circut as well. I wonder if this may have been covered in fabfic at one time? The medial ridge looks good. I would be indlined to lean twords a legitimate piece rather than a newer say Victorian copy. This is of course based just on looking at some pictures which is no substitue for having the object in hand. Do you happen to have any dimensions on it and perhaps a weight?
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Follow this link:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7799

Apparently, helmets were covered in this "Venetian" style long after they were obsolete in warfare.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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James Arlen Gillaspie
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Location: upstate NY
Joined: 10 Nov 2005

Posts: 528

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am troubled by the overall shape, particularly the shape of the skull, which is far too hemispherical for my taste, and I would like to see some closeups of the interior of the helmet with side racking light, so that the internal hammer marks can more clearly be seen.
jamesarlen.com
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Carlo Paggiarino
Industry Professional



Location: ITALY
Joined: 14 Jan 2007

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon 16 Apr, 2012 2:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In my opinion the shape, the opening and the surface are all giveaways that there is something doggy going on here.
Sorry.
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 918

PostPosted: Mon 16 Apr, 2012 4:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One of the lower rear rivet holes seems to have been made with a modern metal punch that slid its way through the metal giving to the hole a very specific shape, that of two superimposing circles.
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional



Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 259

PostPosted: Mon 16 Apr, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Remind me these italian miniature...
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/speculum-huma...-593/2047/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/speculum-huma...-593/2046/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/speculum-huma...-593/2049/

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

Pinterest albums to almost all existing XIVth century armour.
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