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A. Spanjer




Location: USA
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2010 2:39 pm    Post subject: Best Scottish Pistol Reproduction?         Reply with quote

What's the best reproduction of the all-metal Scottish pistols? I don't usually like guns very much, but I do need a pistol to complete my 18th century Scottish weapons collection, and they are nice looking pistols anyway.

I'm looking for a non-firing one by the way, so I want it to be accurate, but without the vent-hole.


Last edited by A. Spanjer on Mon 01 Feb, 2010 12:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tom King




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2010 3:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It definately isn't the best but the only one I've found is this www.swordsofhonor.com/ca-22-1246.html Its also pretty tacky with the gold finish but there must be a silver floating around somewhere
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Jeff Kaisla




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Try these guys. Real functional replicas, in a non firing state. Just needs the vent hole drilled to make it functional. I intend to get their Sea Service Pistol.

http://www.militaryheritage.com/muskets.htm





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A. Spanjer




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmm... I'm not really willing to spend that much on a pistol, seeing as guns aren't really my area of interest. Also, they don't have the engraving that was so common on the originals.

I wonder if it would be possible to remove the gold from the gold pistol? I don't need one that's capable of firing if the vent-hole is drilled (unlike a sword, I don't really want one that's "fully functional."
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Tom King




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2010 9:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

SOH only carries the gold, but I would check the companies product line. Most of these potmetal pistols come gold, bronze, and silver colored.
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Tom King




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2010 9:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just fell in love with military heritages matchlock. Now all I need is the $530. Well time to sell my body to science
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Daniel Sullivan




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2010 10:19 pm    Post subject: Scottish Pistol         Reply with quote

Tom,

Just in case science does not want your body, take a look at By The Sword's site. The same pistol is listed for a bit over $300, at least it appears to be identical.

Dan
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GG Osborne





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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are only four choices:

1. The Gold pistol by Denix

2. The steel pistol shown above.

3. A military RHR pistol which is a copy of one by Bissell.

4. A bronze grip pistol which is also a military pistol and, frankly the most authentic of the lot! but is no longer manufactured.

The gold colored pistol described above is made by a Spanish company named Denix. It only comes in the gold color and cannot be made to fire under any circumstances. The pistol from Military Heritage is also available from many other vendors but the price is about the same. It is a copy of a pistol by Murdoch of Doune while the gold coloered one is a copy of an early Victorian presentation pistol as I have seen several articles picturing the original.

Your choices are very limited. While the Murdoch pistols were usually engraved, I have seen at least one that very closely resembles the one commonly for sale. If you are willing to spend quite a bit more cash (which from the tenor of your inquiry I would say you're not), you can special order a pistol from the manufacturer in India (there are several) and have it made to your specifications. I had one made with a brass barrel, trigger and vent pick on a steel frame. I heavily modified the frame and blued it as most of the originals were blued or browned before being sadly cleaned by museums and dealers. It is engraved but not in an authentic Scottish motif which was against my instructions. I currently have a "lemon butt" steel pistol on order which should be nearing completion.

If you are just interested in a wall-hanger, go for the Denix and search Emaby. There are usually several for sale.

Good luck!

"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 3:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I will echo what Glenn says. The Denix version, which is no longer being manufacturered, is the best "non-bang" for the buck. However, you had better act fast because they stopped making these things several years ago and the supply is dwindling. The silver version was more authentic-looking than the gold but I believe they are completely gone and have been for around seven years.

I have three of the four pistols Glenn mentions. The only one I do not have is the Bissell, which was an English-made pistol used to equip the Scottish regiments. The brass stocked Waters pistol may still be manufacturered and I have seen them at gun shows recently.

If you really want authenticity and can find one, a Coach Harness Doune pistol is probably your best bet. However, when they were being made they were very scarce and now that they have been out of print for nearly thirty years they are even harder to find.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Jimmy Reinstatler




Location: West Carrollton, OH
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 4:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could try Middlesex Village Trading company. Their Scottish pistols go for $325.

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/ScottishPistols.shtml


The only thing is, they have the vent hole drilled. I suppose you could contact them and see if they would be willing to sell you one sans hole?
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 4:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jimmy Reinstatler wrote:
You could try Middlesex Village Trading company. Their Scottish pistols go for $325.

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/ScottishPistols.shtml


The only thing is, they have the vent hole drilled. I suppose you could contact them and see if they would be willing to sell you one sans hole?


They drill the touch hole themselves so they can probably do that. They also adjust the locks for supposedly better sparking but the one I have still doesn't spark very well. And, it eats flints like they are free.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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A. Spanjer




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks! I'll probably go for the Denix, does anyone know of a way top remove the gold from it?

Since we're on the subject of Scottish weaponry, who makes the best Dirk (for under 200$)? I was going to go with the Hanwei one, but I like the look of the Windlass better. I've heard a lot of bad things about Windlass, is their Dirk any good?
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GG Osborne





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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 7:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Save your money on the Hanwei or Windless dirks. They are huge and terribly unauthentic. Buy one from Mike McRae whose got the best of the less expensive ones. Mike is a great guy and usually has several versions on hand. If you want one even more authentic, have him make one for you with a 3" grip. His usual crowd is the Scottish Games crowd and they don't appreciate the fact that the grip section on a real dirk (grip, not pommel cap or haunches) was only about 3". They want one they can hold more comfortably and the grip is 4.5" or so. www.scotiametalworks.com. Mike has a link on this site.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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A. Spanjer




Location: USA
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unfortunately, those are out of my price range for the moment.

I'm working on carving a Dirk hilt, so I'll probably be re-hilting the blade. My question is, which would you buy for a project like that, Hanwei or Windlass?

Also,do you have any good resources for Dirk hilt designs/carving?
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A Spanjer,
If you have not already read it... the article on dirks under the spotlight section on myArmoury is a good place to start. I personally like the early scottish dirk offering from Museum Replicas because it is a beast, and the price is very good at Kult of Athena. Also you might want to have a look at the "dagger, knives and dirks" photo album under "albums" link at the top of the myArmoury page. Page 11 of that photo album has two really classic examples. Hope this helps
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Tom King




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 3:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hanwei's steel is chinese where as windlass uses indian steel, which is generally known to be crap. Go for the Hamwei out of the two.
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A. Spanjer wrote:
Unfortunately, those are out of my price range for the moment.

I'm working on carving a Dirk hilt, so I'll probably be re-hilting the blade. My question is, which would you buy for a project like that, Hanwei or Windlass?

Also,do you have any good resources for Dirk hilt designs/carving?


I would go with the Hanwei, but I must disagree with the description of Windlass blades as "crap". They are adequate blades for the price point.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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GG Osborne





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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a thought for you. Forget the elaborately carved "traditional" dirk grip and make one that was probably much more prevalent in daily use. Anyone with a wood lathe and a nice block of oak could make one of these puppies up for you in 20 minutes or so and a little filing and finishing on your part could make a nice grip. Get some sheet brass or better iron for a pommel cap and buy a blade from Track of the Wolf or any other dagger you want to modify. You will wind up with something very authentic, the right size and good looking.

I am attaching apicture of what I mean. These two dirks are made by Norman C Milne in Edinburgh and the one on the right is, I think very nice for this sort of dirk. I am attaching the picture as illustration as you have already stated that these are outside your price range. I give all credit to Mr. Milne.

Please don't buy the Hanwai dirk. It is fricking huge and there is absolutely nothing, nothing authentic about it at all except the rough idea that some early dirks were triangular in shape. If your heart is set on one <sigh> I may even have one in my junk box I'll give you for the price of postage and handleing.



 Attachment: 159.99 KB
Early dirk.jpg


"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 4:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A. Spanjer wrote:
Thanks! I'll probably go for the Denix, does anyone know of a way top remove the gold from it?



Live with the gold finish. You will never get it off.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Tom King




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lin Robinson wrote:
I would go with the Hanwei, but I must disagree with the description of Windlass blades as "crap". They are adequate blades for the price point.


Some Windlass blades are decent, but there are a lot of better swords in the same price range. The Hanwei Tinkers come to mind. Also Atlanta cutlery sells some cheap dirk blanks. 12in long with a round tang, and its only 16.95 www.atlantacutlery.com
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