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Etienne Hamel




Location: Granby (QC) canada
Joined: 09 Sep 2006

Posts: 428

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jan, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: sword design         Reply with quote

hi everybody i wanted to share a design with all of you it doesn't have a name yet and im without idea of what name to give it...

it is anothher sword i would like to sell for a design (tried darksword-armory but without luck)

the drawing is made by jean thibodeau and the design is from me (i don't know how to use photoshop Laughing Out Loud )

the blade is not a definitive choice i was thinking of a type XIIa blade....

anyway here's the design enjoy and leave your impression. Big Grin



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orion knights 1.jpg


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Orion knights 2.jpg

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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,239

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jan, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like the two handed design. Historically it would best fit with type XVII blade, but I think XVa, XVIa or XVIII might be good too. Maybe even XX or XXa.
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jan, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How long is the blade? IMO, the hilt of the bottom of those 2 swords is way too long for that blade length.

I agree with Luka, that if you want some historical accuracy, a XIIa blade is wrong for that pommel. I think V pommels are a 15th century phenomenon. Of course, you could always say that a 14th century XIIa blade got rehilted 100 years after it was first forged.
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Etienne Hamel




Location: Granby (QC) canada
Joined: 09 Sep 2006

Posts: 428

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jan, 2010 6:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

here's the specs for the two versions:

Single handed version :
Overall length:37 inches
Blade length:30 inches
Blade width: 2 inches at base
Grip length: 4 inches
Guard width: 8 inches
Pommel length : 3 inches

Two handed version :
Overall length: 48 inches
Blade length: 37 inches
Blade width: 2 inches at base
Grip length: 7 inches
Guard width: 8 inches
Pommel length : 3 inches

and luka i took a look at the type XVII blades and i agree ( the blade on the drawing was just to see how would look the fittings with a blade)

i was thinking about should i let it like that or wrap the handle with leather and put some risers?
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Vincent Le Chevalier




Location: Paris, France
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2010 2:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My gut feeling is that one of these is going to be quite off-balance, probably the two-handed one (pommel too big). That is, if these two are meant to share the same blade and pommel...

I would make the handles a bit shorter, since the base of the pommel is apparently meant to be gripped.

Regards,

--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2010 7:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
My gut feeling is that one of these is going to be quite off-balance, probably the two-handed one (pommel too big). That is, if these two are meant to share the same blade and pommel...

I would make the handles a bit shorter, since the base of the pommel is apparently meant to be gripped.

Regards,


I guess a "tweener " with a handle halfway between the short one and the long one might work out better for balance and aesthetically more pleasing.

The weight of the pommel would also depend on how thick is is or if a hollow pommel was used it could be dimensionally large but not too heavy.

I agree with an earlier post that a type XVII blade might look a lot more pleasing with this hilt.

The difference between designing on paper and being a maker or getting a good maker to make a design is that a very good maker will be able to respect the intent of the design but will " tweak " the subtleties of blade balance/distal and profile taper to make it work, something that a new designer may not have the experience to get right if he imposes a rigid set of specifications for the sword.

Becoming a sword designer and getting serious makers to take one's design to mass produce is very different than commissioning a maker to make a custom design: In the first case the industrial maker would have to really " REALLY " buy into the design to take the financial risk of mass producing anything, in the second case you are paying someone to make your design !

As a long term goal wanting to becoming a designer is a good ambition but even established high end makers have to be very good salesmen or be in great demand for a company to consider making one of their designs. ( designing a sword for a popular movie might help but then often the design with be the bought property of the film production company unless the designer was very careful in protecting his rights to the design ..... note: I'm not an expert at this so I'm guessing here ).

This is a bit like breaking into show business: It ( 1/6 + 1/6 Talent/Knowledge ) + ( 1/3 luck ) + ( 1/6 + 1/6 Hard work/perseverance ): This can seem like a bit discouraging so don't give up but also don't expect it to be easy. Wink Cool

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat 16 Jan, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In general, I think, that draw swords requires a manic search for the historical details, it would almost seem that there is no room for creativity. The replica of a sword history, is more similar to mathematics, that art. If you know all thicknesses, lengths, weights ect. you must apply these and nothing else. Yet known, some have a single fingerprint, a style that is just them while respecting the technical specifications of the sword replicated.
Ciao
Maurizio
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Etienne Hamel




Location: Granby (QC) canada
Joined: 09 Sep 2006

Posts: 428

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

if we use the hanwei/tinker blades as an exemple for the shape of the blade what would be the most suitable or historically accurate between the two?

this one?: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...word+Blade

or this one?: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...word+Blade

and to have a nice shape for the sword what lenght of pommel should i use if the thickness of it is roughly 1''? is 3'' long enough or too much?
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Etienne Hamel wrote:
if we use the hanwei/tinker blades as an exemple for the shape of the blade what would be the most suitable or historically accurate between the two?

this one?: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...word+Blade

or this one?: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...word+Blade

and to have a nice shape for the sword what lenght of pommel should i use if the thickness of it is roughly 1''? is 3'' long enough or too much?


Both blades might be suitable but I prefer the look of the second with the guard and pommel as far as compatibility of style.

1" by 3" ? Depends ........ Wink Laughing Out Loud Well, how much weight taken off in the sculpting of the shape: if deep a lot of mass can be taken away from the pommel also the pommel may be thick at the handle and distal taped to anything from 1/2" to even 1/4" even, so 1" by 3" might be O.K. as the dimensions of the piece of steel before any work is done to it.

This is where an experienced and talented sword maker can take your design and tweak it for balance/handling/aesthetics and where you should avoid micromanaging the exact specifications more than in a general way: Well unless you have the skills to do it yourself.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Ken Nelson




Location: central Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Reading list: 12 books

Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 10:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

With as wide as that pommel gets, I think 1" would be far too thick. I would suggest perhaps heading in the other direction.

If the base of the pommel matches the grip, let's assume it is an oval about 5/8" thick by 3/4"wide, then by rough estimation it would be about 3" long and 2 1/4" wide. (rough measurement of the width and length in the picture. the ratios are about 1:4and 1:3) You could save a lot of weight by tapering the thickness down to 1/4" or less at the very end. Much like a fishtail in ornamental iron work, it thins as it widens. A fishtail like that could be forged out of 2 1/2" of 7/8 round, and weigh about 7 ounces, perhaps a little less.

"Live and learn, or you don't live long" L. Long
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Anders Backlund




Location: Sweden
Joined: 24 Oct 2007

Posts: 629

PostPosted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 6:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
My gut feeling is that one of these is going to be quite off-balance, probably the two-handed one (pommel too big). That is, if these two are meant to share the same blade and pommel...


Having done some practical experiments with this exact scenario lately, I can say with some certainty that this is correct. If the two swords are equal otherwise, the long-hilted one will only need a pommel less then half the weight of the short-hilted one.

The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.

"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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