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Tony G.




Location: U.K.
Joined: 25 Mar 2006

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 6:56 am    Post subject: Medieval sword.         Reply with quote

Thought you may like to see a medieval sword I recently purchased. Ivory grip & Pommel. 30" long. Just doing research. Any idea`s welcome.
Many thanks. Tony..



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A. Spanjer




Location: USA
Joined: 26 Apr 2009

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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The blade looks to thick...

Where did you aquire it?
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Given the pentacle and what looks like the green man on one side, I'm going to say it's a modern piece.

M.

This space for rent or lease.
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Tony G.




Location: U.K.
Joined: 25 Mar 2006

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 10:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A. Spanjer wrote:
The blade looks to thick...

Where did you aquire it?


The thickness not shown, do you mean wide ? It`s 1.60" thats not wide for this type of sword !!!
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Tony G.




Location: U.K.
Joined: 25 Mar 2006

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
Given the pentacle and what looks like the green man on one side, I'm going to say it's a modern piece.

M.


The pentacle has been used for thousands of years, as for the Green man ( It`s not ) has been around from the 2nd century. Were are the leaves around the head and comming out of its face !!!
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Christopher Gregg




Location: Louisville, KY
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 10:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
Given the pentacle and what looks like the green man on one side, I'm going to say it's a modern piece.

M.


I have to agree. This appears to be a recent piece, perhaps within the last 20 years or less. No medieval sword I have ever encountered displayed a pentagram (a rather dangerous symbol to display publicly during this time). The face on the opposite side appears to be a "wild man" with an axe. Why put such a symbol on a sword??? The construction of the grip, with its pinned ivory plaques is out of character for a medieval battle sword - it wouldn't be the best choice for taking the stress and shock of the blow. The iron hilt and blade also appear to have the exact same level and character of patina - which would not be likely to occur. The differences in the steel blade and the iron hilt would corrode differently over centuries. Also, to be a properly designed combat piece, the pommel would have to serve as a counter-weight, something a piece of ivory would not do. I would guess this sword does not have the proper balance to be a competent weapon.

I would say this is a heavily antiqued custom sword of pseudo-medieval type, probably created as a pagan/Wiccan ritual piece. I think it's a pretty cool piece, actually, but then I am fond of custom ritualistic/fantasy sword designs that show an above average level of imagination. A neat find, to be sure.

Christopher Gregg

'S Rioghal Mo Dhream!


Last edited by Christopher Gregg on Sun 20 Dec, 2009 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 10:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tony G. wrote:
The thickness not shown, do you mean wide ? It`s 1.60" thats not wide for this type of sword !!!


The thickness is kind of shown by the blade's cross-section and mid-rib.

Where did you get this sword? How old were you told it was?

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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JG Elmslie
Industry Professional



Location: Scotland
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

(edit: reassuring to see two more similar comments while I was typing this... )

I dont know, my gut instinct from every original I've seen and handled screams out that it's off in a dozen ways.

Mr Spanjer's comment is similar to my first reaction on looking at this earlier (I did'nt comment as no-one else had, and I could be utterly wrong and looking like an eejit), was that it was too thick.

not in the profile, but in distal. it could be the very dark contrast of blade edges to that central ridge, but it appears far too deep a cross section

on top of that, an ivory pommel, not metal, and what looks like screws in the tang. its all rather curious. do you have any information on its provenance, origin, etc?
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Lee O'Hagan




Location: Northamptonshire,England
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

reminds me of a few of those evil sacrificial type knives,
excellet thread on this site somewhere,
far too much iron for the wiccans,
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 11:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm a complete hobbiest collector so my opinion is worth very little when it comes to period pieces. That said, it also appears to me that the piece is of victorian or newer manufacture and that it is primarily constructed with an intent to look old and mysterious/occultish to someone unfamiliar with period weapons.

I have no idea what it might be but it seems to lack the level of metal working skill and attention to detail often present in the real period weapons that I have seen. Everything except the work on the ivory seems to be rather carelessly put together. Its almost as if the blade and guard are merely a prop for the ivory grip. The grip itself also seems to be more important for its imagry than its function IMO. I think that the whole package seems to be put together to appeal to a preconcieved idea of what a old sword should be. I do not think that it is a particularly old sword.

However, this is all my very limited and absolutely amatuer opinion based on a few photos of the object in question. I'm problably far more likely to be wrong about all of this, than I am to be right about any of it. Cool

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy


Last edited by Joe Fults on Sun 20 Dec, 2009 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bruno Giordan





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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like a XV century long dagger with a modern handle, attached with two badly peened rivets.

Cross and blade look well made and period, pitting credible. Could you pls give out thickness at least at start of the blade, in the middle and near the point?

That measurements would give us good indication of a blade being real or not.
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Michael Edelson




Location: New York
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The patina looks authentic. I can't comment about anything else, but it's hard to fake that.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 2:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Grip is definitely not medieval but blade could be a large dagger or maybe shortened sword blade?
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John Lundemo
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Location: New Hampton, N.Y.
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 3:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Edelson wrote:
The patina looks authentic. I can't comment about anything else, but it's hard to fake that.
HI, it is actually quite easy to do a fast nantural looking patina. The deep pittings and even eroded edges can be easily done in a matter of a few weeks time. It is done all the time, the boys over at Raven sword who do work for the Tower of London in England have made several hanging all over the place and I have seen and spoken to them at several shows and they had a few on hand to look at.
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Joel Minturn





Joined: 10 Dec 2007

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don't know much about the sword but I do know that at least in the middle ages the pentagram (point up) was a christian symbol and it represented the wounds of Christ. But what that means for the rest of the sword not sure.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

First impression (without more than seeing the picture briefly) is that it is the work of William Lloyd, still active and does lots of organics carving work. If not, certainly a brother in the arts. I don't know that he has ever offered aged efforts, or that no one has done so to his work.

http://www.lloydstudios.com/

Cheers

GC
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Anders Backlund




Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 10:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
Given the pentacle and what looks like the green man on one side, I'm going to say it's a modern piece.

M.


Specifically, to me, the pentacle and green man suggest a ceremonial Wicca sword.

Edit: Darn, Mr Gregg beat me to it. Oh well.

The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.

"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Tony G.




Location: U.K.
Joined: 25 Mar 2006

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2009 1:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all for your reply`s. Very gratefull.
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Nathan Quarantillo




Location: Eastern Panhandle WV, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2009 8:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i would concur that this piece seems to be a modern display/ceremonial piece. the wild man designs seem quite well, out of place for the time medieval time period. kinda viking-ish in form. and i agree about the sturdiness of the hilt. an organic material for a pommel wasn't around since the heyday of the gladii. and, on a note of the blade, it seems that the very thick cross-section is out of place on a sword of that profile taper (or lack thereof). with that profile you would be more likely to see fullers or so. correct me on any points that i am wrong, but that is to the best of my knowledge.
"Id rather be historically accurate than politically correct"
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another thing that looks suspicious to me is that the blade is shaped like a lenticular cutter, and yet the sword has a riser and no fuller. To me, it looks like someone was trying to make a 11th through 13th century type blade but didn't really know what they were doing.
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