Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Mail Sample Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Jeff A. Arbogast





Joined: 16 Oct 2008

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 6:50 am    Post subject: Mail Sample         Reply with quote

Here is a mail sample a vendor sent me. I am just curious what everyone thinks about it. It is flat-ringed wedge-riveted mail from India and it is pretty reasonably priced. The vendor says himself that it may not be the very finest available, but for the price (around $1300.00 for the coat, split front and rear, and tapering long sleeves) he doesn't think that anyone can complain. It looks pretty good to me without having to take out a second mortgage (if I even could).


 Attachment: 202.18 KB
Mail front.jpg


 Attachment: 203.29 KB
Mail.jpg


A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
View user's profile Send private message
Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
Joined: 02 Sep 2008

Posts: 239

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't have a similar mail to compare, but for me the price is a bit too high: the armour is clearly handmade, but without great skill. Some links are off center, they will probably came loose or break...

Someone has a similar armour priced?
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Reading list: 3 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,435

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 9:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The ID to OD ratio is off. I am of the understanding that maille doesn't let you see that much table through it when well made.

M.

This space for rent or lease.
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,368

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 9:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
The ID to OD ratio is off. I am of the understanding that maille doesn't let you see that much table through it when well made.

M.


Huh, I wouldn't have thought that. It looks plenty dense to me. But I mostly see Roman mail, and there may be a difference (since Romans mostly used alternating rows of solid punched rings and round-wire riveted rings). And it could just be that advancing age makes lighter, fluffier, airier mail that WEIGHS LESS very attractive to me!

Have to agree that $1300 still sounds a tad high. We've been getting sleeveless Roman mailshirts with shoulder doublings for $425 to $800 (the latter being 6mm inner diameter rings). But since this is all riveted, that might make it more expensive.

Good luck!

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jeff A. Arbogast





Joined: 16 Oct 2008

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 10:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are another couple of pics with the mail draped over my forearm. As far as I can tell by measuring, the I.D> appears to be 5/16" and the O.D. appears to be 1/2." The supplier said that the weight of the hauberk is about 24 pounds. Long over-the-shoulder coif w/ small face opening adds to it though.


 Attachment: 219.93 KB
Mailed arm.jpg


 Attachment: 216.07 KB
Mailed arm 2.jpg


A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
View user's profile Send private message
Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 399

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 12:14 pm    Post subject: Mail Sample         Reply with quote

Some comparisons:

GDFB wedge riveted flat maille Hauberk: http://www.getdressedforbattle.co.uk/acatalog...aille.html - UKŁ 575.92 = 956 U.S. dollars

Historic Enterprises Haubergon is short sleeved, but the price is much lower: http://historicenterprises.biz/haubergeon-wed...th=101_141 - $694.95

Cap-a-pie wedge riveted / solid links hauberk: http://www.capapie.co.uk/current.html - UKŁ 470 = 780 U.S. dollars

GDFB Global full wedge riveted (code 1) Hauberk: http://www.gdfbglobal.com/chainmaille-hauberks.html - € 672.00 = 997 U.S. dollars

I'm sure there are more, I'm Euro oriented.

So paying higher price to an unknown maker doesn't seem very sensible.


Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jeff A. Arbogast





Joined: 16 Oct 2008

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Mail Sample         Reply with quote

Blaz Berlec wrote:
Some comparisons:

GDFB wedge riveted flat maille Hauberk: http://www.getdressedforbattle.co.uk/acatalog...aille.html - UKŁ 575.92 = 956 U.S. dollars

Historic Enterprises Haubergon is short sleeved, but the price is much lower: http://historicenterprises.biz/haubergeon-wed...th=101_141 - $694.95

Cap-a-pie wedge riveted / solid links hauberk: http://www.capapie.co.uk/current.html - UKŁ 470 = 780 U.S. dollars

GDFB Global full wedge riveted (code 1) Hauberk: http://www.gdfbglobal.com/chainmaille-hauberks.html - € 672.00 = 997 U.S. dollars

I'm sure there are more, I'm Euro oriented.

So paying higher price to an unknown maker doesn't seem very sensible.


Well, I haven't paid for anything yet, nor am I likely too for a while. I admit I'm not as knowledgeable in this area as I would like, including price. I am mainly just fishing for opinions regarding it's construction for now. The manufacturer who makes this is the same company that makes the mail for GDFB I was told, so apparently the quality is similar to those you mention.

A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,394

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The quality is the same from all the above suppliers. So just buy the cheapest. It is fine if you want something that looks a bit like historical mail. The links are too light and the riveting too dodgy to handle combat unless you are capable of making your own repairs. Ask for galvanised mail. You may as well save yourself the trouble of keeping it clean.
View user's profile Send private message
Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 399

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I'll have the chance to see that for myself soon, Cap-a-pie all wedge riveted voiders and skirt are on their way to me right now. If the Royal Mail still functions. Wink

I strongly doubt that it's as bad as Howard says - a lot of people use riveted maille from the above suppliers in stage fights and mock combat without problems. Of course it's not completely accurate reconstruction, you couldn't use it for "destructive testing of medieval maille" and get any useful results (wrong material, slightly wrong shape of the overlap and rivet, several other deviations).

And I think combat that regularly damages your riveted maille isn't really that healthy to person underneath, unless you are wearing it on top of the plate armour. Razz I mean, just a while ago people were completely satisfied with their butted "chainmail".


Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Hadrian Coffin
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, England
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Posts: 394

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The cheapest I know of for flat-riveted mail is https://ssl.perfora.net/www.finditarmory.com/sess/utn154af73ad2551fa/shopdata/index.shopscript
$280 for half sleeve, $340 for full sleeve. From what I have seen the quality of the Indian made mail is pretty much all the same.
What I like about find-it-armory's is that from the pictures it seems to show some moderate tailoring.



 Attachment: 21.67 KB
myarmoury.jpg


Historia magistra vitae est
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,394

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Blaz Berlec wrote:
(wrong material, slightly wrong shape of the overlap and rivet, several other deviations).
A LOT of other deviations.

Quote:
And I think combat that regularly damages your riveted maille isn't really that healthy to person underneath, unless you are wearing it on top of the plate armour. Razz I mean, just a while ago people were completely satisfied with their butted "chainmail".

Butted mail is heavier and can absorb more impact. With light mail virtually all of the blow is transferred through to the wearer. Underpadding is a lot more important.
View user's profile Send private message
Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
Joined: 16 Nov 2008

Posts: 678

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ah, well I think it's all give a little, take a little.
I mean, one is not going to break the buget too much if the shop around for a good deal, one could use it whenever for whatever, it looks slightly more accurate than butted, one could customise it (in theory) and when it's past its heyday, you can recycle it Laughing Out Loud
Then again, if one bought really good, high quality, real maille, well, I for one wouldn't fight in it, nor do any of the aforementioned things; plus it'd be super expensive!
So yeah, that's my two cents.

P.S. Can anyone recomend an Australian supplier? As I'm in the market for some voiders/gussets and ye olde international shipping hurts ones buget greatly Eek!

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
View user's profile Send private message
S Bryce




Location: England
Joined: 16 Nov 2009

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have to agree with Dan on the quality of the maille sample in the images, some rough edges on that.

Not sure on the comment of quality being same from all the suppliers though. I have examples of GDFB, Capapie and Historic.

In my opinion Historic and Cap-a-pie are by far the best, in fact looking at the wedge standard I have from Historic, it looks very siimilar in quality to the Cap skirt i recently bought.

One thing I have noticed when looking at the really cheap stuff is that it can cut your gambeson to shreds. I carried a cheap shirt for a mate of mine back to his car recently and ended up some nice cuts on the wrist. Sad

Can't recall the name of the company but the riveting was terrible, most of the links had blown and the edges were very sharp. He was happy as it only cost him Ł200.

On the subject of maille which is the reason I have just signed up after some years just lurking on the site. LOL

Does anyone have any thoughts on 6mm maille. Saw some 6mm from Cap-a-pie at the living history fayre last week and it looks really cool. Tempted to get some voiders and a standard in this but wanted to keep the skirt in the larger gauge. Any thoughts on if it would have been mixed in that way.
View user's profile Send private message
David Clark





Joined: 10 Feb 2009

Posts: 132

PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have heard of and seen, in person, great maille from Icefalcon Armoury. If you go to the armourarchive.org he is having a stimulus sale through christmas.
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Clark wrote:
I have heard of and seen, in person, great maille from Icefalcon Armoury. If you go to the armourarchive.org he is having a stimulus sale through christmas.


For one thing, the fact that the mail shirt fits the guy in the Icefalcon photos like a tent leads me to doubt just how accurate this assertion is. Notice how much more form fitting an actual, historic suit of mail is: http://www.myArmoury.com/view.html?features/pic_mail17.jpg
View user's profile Send private message
Felix R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Reading list: 25 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Of course you are right regading the proper fit of a maile shirt. But you won´t get that tight a fit with a pull over shirt.
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff,

You might want to consider looking here: http://www.medievalrepro.com/Mail.htm. I can't say for certain, but the mail looks like it might be better quality, specifically with its inner to outer diameter ratio for rings, than the sample you've posted, and the price is similar.
View user's profile Send private message
Jeff A. Arbogast





Joined: 16 Oct 2008

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Jeff,

You might want to consider looking here: http://www.medievalrepro.com/Mail.htm. I can't say for certain, but the mail looks like it might be better quality, specifically with its inner to outer diameter ratio for rings, than the sample you've posted, and the price is similar.


Hi Craig-
You win the prize! The sample of mail I posted is indeed from Peter Fuller of Medieval Reproductions. He sent me the sample and gave me permission to post it any way I liked, but I chose not to name the supplier so as to get a better idea of what the varying opinions of it would be without any prejudices creeping in pro or con because of the supplier. I have a nice scabbard made by Peter many years ago, and have found him to be a most pleasant and knowledgeable person to deal with. I do find the workmanship of some of the items on his site (such as the "Beowulf" helm) to be breathtaking. I personally don't doubt that the mail I have shown is plenty adequate for play-acting, mild play combat, or anything but the most EXTREME violence, and frankly, anyone who goes willingly into such a savage life-and-death fracas for "fun" is, in my opinion, completely nuts. Like most here I'll wager, I simply enjoy handling it, looking at it, dressing up and looking cool in it, but certainly not having my brains beat out in it. This hobby we indulge in is the coolest ever, but I am not going to tear up the things I worked so hard to put together and paid so much for unless I was rich enough to readily replace them, which I'm not. That's getting way too serious for me.Wink

A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
View user's profile Send private message
David Clark





Joined: 10 Feb 2009

Posts: 132

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
David Clark wrote:
I have heard of and seen, in person, great maille from Icefalcon Armoury. If you go to the armourarchive.org he is having a stimulus sale through christmas.


For one thing, the fact that the mail shirt fits the guy in the Icefalcon photos like a tent leads me to doubt just how accurate this assertion is. Notice how much more form fitting an actual, historic suit of mail is: http://www.myArmoury.com/view.html?features/pic_mail17.jpg


Well, doubt all you want, but I fight against a fellow wearing one of his Lorica Hamatas and another fellow who wears one of his byrnies nearly every week (SCA). They fit them just fine (no rumpling from too much girth etc...) and they look great and have taken an awful lot of damage and held up wonderfully.
And as Felix said, you can't get that body hugging look with a maille shirt you pull over your head, such as those worn by the Saxons, Norse, etc...
View user's profile Send private message
Jonathan Atkin





Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 90

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a full maille suit from ice it fits me just fine, I've only had to modify it just a tad. The half sleeves needed to be taken in a little and I had to cut a little off the top of my chausses. Other then that excellent fit. Not to start a fanboy war but you shouldn't knock it till you've tried it.
"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness''. - Theodore Roosevelt
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Mail Sample
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2020 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum