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Helge B.





Joined: 06 Mar 2008

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2009 12:56 am    Post subject: Patton sabre vs. lance         Reply with quote

While charging and stretching the arm forward in a lunge position you were supposed to have the same reach with a Patton sabre in comparison to a lance.

How does the handling compare? If you can achieve the same reach why use a more unwieldy lance at all?
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 683

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2009 1:35 am    Post subject: Re: Patton sabre vs. lance         Reply with quote

Helge B. wrote:
While charging and stretching the arm forward in a lunge position you were supposed to have the same reach with a Patton sabre in comparison to a lance.


Given the length of a lance compared to the length of a sword, I have to admit to having some difficulty picturing this...
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Helge B.





Joined: 06 Mar 2008

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2009 2:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here a picture out of the Patton Sabre exercise manual to visualize what I mean.

The manual also includes an interesting passage about how to defeat a lancer.



 Attachment: 12.05 KB
Lunge to the front.JPG

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Lukasz Papaj




Location: Malbork, Poland
Joined: 09 Mar 2009

Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2009 3:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kind of shows decline of cavalry tradition (IIRC Patton made this manual just before WWI ? along with his design for "thrusting cavalry sword" ? )
Goes precisely the other way to the traditional use of weapons by cavalryman - lance as weapon for head-on collision/impact and saber/sword as a weapon for cutting down fleeing infantry/people or fighting another cavalryman only when the lance got misplaced. (or there were no means of dispatching foe without endangering both rider and steed - like a pistol, available) Guess somebody was trying to cut costs of training and equipment Big Grin

On the other hand - even in ACW "cavalry" was a name for mounted infantry, not the true thing. I can understand that for such troops carrying lance (and learning to use it) was counterproductive - "in case you'll encounter cavalry - stick'em with pointy end, end of training". Might serve them better than all the funny stuff the British taught the Light Brigade.

But then the ages long tradition of cavalry was dead and buried in the west for at least century. Somehow it reminds me contemporary efforts to revive longsword tradition - just look what was known/taught about that subject in that same timeframe.

Definitely, it's good for Mr. Patton that the tank got invented, definitely he got better results with them than with the horses Happy
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,803

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fielded as late as WWII by the Horse Marines in China.

The Patton HQ site has a bunch of reading one can do, along with lots of chat on several forums (1913 or Patton for search inquiries)

http://www.pattonhq.com/

Also, check these out as a more plausible motive for Patton to adopt that blade instead of British or Spanish types. Patton was in Stockholm as an Olympian participant and most certainly was influenced by European straight blades. Also keep in mind the transitional proposed sabre of 1904-1906 that had a tip curved blade with a basket not unlike what was eventually stuck on the Swedish blade form and a pistol grip that was more streamlined by the adoption of the Patton model.

http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/h_svenska_armen.htm

Cheers

GC



 Attachment: 38.99 KB
USMC_Cavalry1.JPG


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USMC_Cavalry2.jpg

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