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Alberto P.





Joined: 11 Sep 2009

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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 2:51 am    Post subject: Help: Landsknecht helm         Reply with quote

Hello, I am a historical re-enactment and I need an idea for a helmet from the 1500/1510 Landsknecht be combined with a corselet infantryman. I want to do a peak or a Doppelsöldner. Thanks
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Chuck Russell




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 5:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i'm not 100% but a burgonet or a sallet would work
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Alberto P.





Joined: 11 Sep 2009

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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 6:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the burgonet is too late, I'm talking about the 1500/1510
The Sallet is not ideal ...
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Matthew Fedele




Location: Auburn, NY USA
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Germans loved their sallets. How about one of those small skull caps you can plop your hat on over?
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Alberto P.





Joined: 11 Sep 2009

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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 6:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

yes, an idea was in fact a skull cap. I need some pictures because I need to make a replica ...
I also wanted to know if there was something more than Sallet and skull cap
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 7:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One of the unusual features of Landsknecht warfare is that they didn't use much armour at all, so you're probably better off without a helmet or armour of any type to portray a simple pikeman. Notice that the only Landsknecht shown below are in combat and unarmoured. On the other hand, if you want to carry the two-hand sword or halberd, it would be reasonable to wear one of the proto-burgonets of the period, like some of the ones shown below (all of which are Austrian or German, 1500-1510). These have shallow bowls and, often, rondels or laminated cheek/neck defenses.

A couple of displays in the Museo Stibbert show early Landsknecht in similar helmets with multiple roped crests, but I think those are a bit later than your period of interest.

Most of the helmeted figures shown below depict guards and civil authorities rather than Landsknecht.



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-Sean

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Nicholas A. Gaese




Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 7:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The bergonet from what I gather shows in period art as early as the 1520's, but before that sallets and skull caps seem to have been prevalent. If you can, check out on this site's search engine for "Maximilions Triumpfzug", you might be able to find pictures there closer to your period.

meanwhile I got a pic of the landsknecht Paul Guterding wearing a skull cap. Although the pic is dated around 1525, the style of skull cap should be very close to earlier ones, a conforming steel cap with visible rivets for a lining.



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Portrait of Paul Guterding.
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is another drawing of a landsknecht, wearing a similar skull cap:
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Royal Armouries have a nice display, photographed by one of our own forumites:

http://www.historiclife.com/images/MuseumTrip...CT0600.jpg

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Alberto P.





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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

is what I was looking, if you have more pictures posted thanks a lot, I think there were some models of the protections for the cheeks
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's right. Here's one, ca. 1500.


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmm, interesting, looks like that this one might have had some sort of a visor?
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William Knight




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2009 6:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Claude Blair dates proto-burgonets to the beginning of the 16th century in European Armour 1066-1700. Keep in mind that they are different in form from the more recognizable mid-century burgonets sported by the Schwarz Reiters et al.

For early Landsknechts, look at the sketches of Paul Dolstein (I think one is shown above), or images of the Schwabian war, like these here:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...rkrieg.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons..._Krieg.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...h-1499.jpg

Even many of the armoured figures seem to only have on a skullcap under their hat, if that.

-Wilhelm
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Emil S Andersen





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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is some more images of the landsknechtshaube Sean posted:
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/139/landskngthjelm1500.jpg
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2009 2:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I love this helmet. Is it any way appropriate?


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Helmet: 1501/1515
Copyright: Germanisches Nationalmuseum


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Lafayette C Curtis




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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Woah! A proto-burgonet indeed! But is that an adjustable nasal in the Oriental style?
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Nathan Johnson




Location: Australia
Joined: 05 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2009 9:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are the various helmets I and my brother use for Landsknecht reenactment.
If you like any I can tell you there makers, two of whom made the Maximilian half armours that go with three of the helmets.(Also, half these helmets ar supposed to be worn under hats or covered in cloth.)



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Mark Hanna





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PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2011 8:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great pictures thanks for posting them. The Walters Art Gallery in Baltimore had one of these "bowl" style helmets on thier landsknecht suit of armor. Wish I had taken more pictures when I was there. Unfortunatley they have turned thier armor room into a cafateria and I don't know if this suit is on display now.

Nathan Johnson could you post the armorers who made your helmets?

Thanks,
Mark
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Christopher Treichel




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PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2011 9:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, that helmet is of the City guards of Nueremberg... here is a pic I took while there... Nueremberg's fortress belonged to the Emperor and the Landsknechts to him... so yes those helmets with the three ridges are appropriate for the 1510s-1550s. The one in the museum is combined with an almain collar. The German word for the type of helm is "Sturmhaube" or attack helmet.


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Christopher Treichel




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PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some secret helms to be worn under hats... as well as a picture of the one you have the black and white pic of.... they had quite a number of these in the museums in Nuremberg... from the Germanische Nationalmuseum from my trip in 2006.


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