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Jon Sama





Joined: 18 Jul 2009

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: im tryin to make a Wood Gladius handle         Reply with quote

Hey guys. Second post ever.

i have a broken Angus blade that i wanna turn into a Gladius, itll be perfect if i can work out the wood work, is there anyone out there who sells Gladius Parts?

do i have to start with a block of wood and whittle it down?

thanks

turn it
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
i have a broken Angus blade


Pictures and explanation please!

Cheers

GC
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R D Moore




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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 3:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pics would help a lot, but here is a site that might be useful:
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/gladhnts.html

"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation" ...Gen. Douglas Macarthur
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Greg McKusky




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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would suggest making the handle from two pieces of wood that are chiseled out to make a tight fit on the tang and then glued togther. then you can carve or otherwise machine it down to fit.

greg
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Jon Sama





Joined: 18 Jul 2009

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: thanks guys         Reply with quote

thanks guys. that website was super helpful and all the advice is taking in and noted.... im really startin to like this site.

ill put up pictures in a bit. im having the broken blade ground down so it has a tip.

i broke the sword chopping a log. i dont think that was quite abuse but it just snapped into.

turn it
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: thanks guys         Reply with quote

Jon Sama wrote:
i broke the sword chopping a log. i dont think that was quite abuse but it just snapped into.


Most people would consider that abuse. Swords were meant to oppose people, not logs.

Remember Karate Kid 2 (man, I'm, getting old)? Daniel asks Mr. Miyagi if he can break a log with a karate chop. Mr. Miyagi says "Don't know. Never been attacked by tree." Happy

Most makers would file log chopping under abuse that voids warranties, and rightfully so.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: thanks guys         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Jon Sama wrote:
i broke the sword chopping a log. i dont think that was quite abuse but it just snapped into.


Most people would consider that abuse. Swords were meant to oppose people, not logs.

Remember Karate Kid 2 (man, I'm, getting old)? Daniel asks Mr. Miyagi if he can break a log with a karate chop. Mr. Miyagi says "Don't know. Never been attacked by tree." Happy

Most makers would file log chopping under abuse that voids warranties, and rightfully so.


I agree, Chad.

Most of us here wouldn't call a tool that chops logs a "sword". Not me, anyway.

As Chad knows, one of the very reasons this site exists is to try to teach people what swords are... and what they are not.

The thing that some people don't realize is that if you overbuild a sword so that it does okay against a log, or a rock, or a bar of steel, its properties are changed to such a considerable amount that the other things that define a sword as being a sword are no longer there. I've seen many items made by some makers that, frankly, I wouldn't consider to be anything resembling the things I call a "sword". Many were sharpened crowbars, unwieldy long semi-sharpened pieces of steel with cross-guards, or something of the like: but not swords.

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Robert Subiaga Jr.





Joined: 02 Apr 2009

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 9:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In general I would very much agree. HOWEVER ...

The characteristics of a blade that distinguish a "sword" from "something else" are exponentially proprtional to length. That's why both blades of beefier cross-section (e.g. axes) and blades of thinner cross sections (e.g. machetes) are both able to handle similar targets at shorter lengths.

The upshot: either can be a far more justifiable piece at a gladius length, and recriminations about "abuse" become much more moot a point.

Ergo, turning such a broken blade into such a weapon/tool is more than merely appropriate.

Starting in a hollowed log of wood—some thousand miles up a river, with an infinitesimal prospect of returning! I ask myself "Why?" and the only echo is "damned fool!...the Devil drives...
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: thanks guys         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:

As Chad knows, one of the very reasons this site exists is to try to teach people what swords are... and what they are not.

The thing that some people don't realize is that if you overbuild a sword so that it does okay against a log, or a rock, or a bar of steel, its properties are changed to such a considerable amount that the other things that define a sword as being a sword are no longer there. I've seen many items made by some makers that, frankly, I wouldn't consider to be anything resembling the things I call a "sword". Many were sharpened crowbars, unwieldy long semi-sharpened pieces of steel with cross-guards, or something of the like: but not swords.


Yeah, one might call these big heavy steel " things " , Maces in drag masquerading as a sword. Wink hey, they might even be effective if used as maces with a cutting edge !

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Robert Subiaga Jr.





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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: thanks guys         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Yeah, one might call these big heavy steel " things " , Maces in drag masquerading as a sword. Wink hey, they might even be effective if used as maces with a cutting edge !


Yes, but that's why it's important to careful how askance we look at them as weapons.

To wit: if period warriors were willing to use an axe, and were willing to use a sword, there is little to suspect they would by necessity declare a weapon that looked like a sword and handled like an axe "unusable."

They would be very reluctant to pay sword prices for such an object, of course. And that, in historical context, explains why such functional "SLOs" were not made. (I'd actually propose a new term, "SLeW," or "sword-like-weapon," for robust fully functional and viable weapons that look like swords but handle differently.) Why put the effort and cost normally associated w/ a sword into what is essentially an axe or mace when an actual axe or mace is easier, quicker and cheaper to make, and thus to sell? It thus becomes an artifact of modern production methods intersecting with weapons of historical appearance that we have such "swords" on today's market.

Nevertheless, that is a question of anthropology and economics, not functionality per se. I'd venture that the vast majority of historical warriors who, for whatever reason, did choose a stouter axe or mace might well, could they get it for the same price, also might have readily chosen such a functional "SLeW."

(Something similar becomes a significant caveat in any number of modern "reproductions." Example: some reviewers have criticized Windlass's Arbedo sword as too whippy. Indeed it is--by comparison to the museum piece to which it bears a superficial resemblence, which had a seriously hollow-ground blade with noticeable stiffness. If one eschews a presupposition of what kind of blade it is "supposed" to be, however, the Arbedo can be seen as a serious thin-sectioned cutter more akin to a Type X. On the other end of the spectrum is the CS Grosse Messer, which is significantly heavy and overbuilt compared to actual extant examples of kriegsmessers. There are, however, heavy Renaissance-era two-handers--not to mention examples from other cultures like the heavier dadao--to which the CS Grosse Messer bears a functional similarity different than its appearance.)

I doubt historical warriors relied upon superficial appearances to extant examples anywhere near as much as we have a tendency to. Especially since, well, there were no "museum" pieces to color their perceptions. If they picked up a sword that handled, well, like an axe, and they did not want a weapon that handled like an axe, they no doubt would forgo such a weapon. And be surprised. But not declare it "just plain wrong."

Historical examples of swords, blades, and hilting techniques are a remarkable convergence of how design and function converge--just as organisms' fit of adaptations and their environment. But just as organisms' adaptations have never come close to exhausting all the possibilities of fitting within a niche, at no point in history have weapons designs exhausted the functional possibilities that existed within a historic environment. The interests in hand weapons as a history buff and a martial artist have enormous overlap, and many of us are to a large extent both kinds of afionado--but the concerns are not absolutely identical.

Starting in a hollowed log of wood—some thousand miles up a river, with an infinitesimal prospect of returning! I ask myself "Why?" and the only echo is "damned fool!...the Devil drives...
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: thanks guys         Reply with quote

Robert Subiaga Jr. wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Yeah, one might call these big heavy steel " things " , Maces in drag masquerading as a sword. Wink hey, they might even be effective if used as maces with a cutting edge !


Yes, but that's why it's important to careful how askance we look at them as weapons.

To wit: if period warriors were willing to use an axe, and were willing to use a sword, there is little to suspect they would by necessity declare a weapon that looked like a sword and handled like an axe "unusable."



Interesting idea: Some of the Medieval choppers do sort of have axe-like and sword like qualities if heavy or machete like qualities if the blade where very light.

There are also bar-like maces using sword hilts.

Still, if a weapon looks like a sword but handles like something else a warrior choosing to use it would use it for what it can actually do and not what it resembles ? Mostly just re-stating your premise.

In the World of reproduction swords too heavy is rarely a lucid design choice but is often based on criteria not related to the handling of a good sword: One is either making it super robust to fill that perceived need/want by some customers or one doesn't know any better ! On the other hand one gets many more bad tangs in unsafe wallhangers than overbuilt swords as overbuilding probably costs the maker more than making something cheap and flawed ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Robert Subiaga Jr.





Joined: 02 Apr 2009

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 11:32 pm    Post subject: Re: thanks guys         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Still, if a weapon looks like a sword but handles like something else a warrior choosing to use it would use it for what it can actually do and not what it resembles ? Mostly just re-stating your premise.


I think so. The idea being: pick it up, use it, and go by feel, not by looks. If it doesn't feel like anything useable, forgo it out of basic principle. If it doesn't feel like something you prefer to use, but someone else could, leave it for that someone else. Cool

Starting in a hollowed log of wood—some thousand miles up a river, with an infinitesimal prospect of returning! I ask myself "Why?" and the only echo is "damned fool!...the Devil drives...
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 1:30 am    Post subject: Re: thanks guys         Reply with quote

Robert Subiaga Jr. wrote:

(I'd actually propose a new term, "SLeW," or "sword-like-weapon," for robust fully functional and viable weapons that look like swords but handle differently.


Robert Subiaga Jr. wrote:

There are, however, heavy Renaissance-era two-handers


I need to play with these things more. Looks like a sword, handles like a polearm! The Cold Steel H1/2 trainer brought to mind the possibility of making a Zweihander trainer--could be fun.
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Justin King
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: thanks guys         Reply with quote

Jon Sama wrote:


i broke the sword chopping a log. i dont think that was quite abuse but it just snapped into.


The question of abuse aside, I might suggest wearing some serious safety gear and taking measures to protect any bystanders if you are going to use swords in this manner. A blade snapping in two while in motion is a tragedy waiting to happen.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: im tryin to make a Wood Gladius handle         Reply with quote

Jon Sama wrote:
Hey guys. Second post ever.

i have a broken Angus blade that i wanna turn into a Gladius, itll be perfect if i can work out the wood work, is there anyone out there who sells Gladius Parts?

do i have to start with a block of wood and whittle it down?

thanks


Oh, in our enthusiasm to talk about broken weapons and overbuilt weapons etc ... I think everybody has forgotten to give Jon an answer to his question about making a gladius handle. ( We need a slap on the forehead Emoticon maybe. Wink Laughing Out Loud )

So any Gladius parts out there and if not what would be the best wood to use and I imagine one should use a solid piece and try to cut in the rectangular hole for the handle ? A two piece handle might work but the wood being not covered by leather the seam between the two pieces would be visible unless a single piece of wood is first cut in half, the slots for the tang cut in each half and then glued back together as seamlessly as possible ? If two pieces of wood are used even a perfect job of careful fitting of the two halves would still be detectable by just looking at the grain mismatch of two different pieces of wood ? ( Well a wood with a very plain or barely visible wood grain might work if two different pieces of wood are used if one want the joint to be as invisible as possible ).

Oh, the integrity of the handle would depend on the glue holding things together so probably the single piece of wood is a better idea ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jon Sama





Joined: 18 Jul 2009

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 10:50 am    Post subject: lol.....         Reply with quote

Chad the Tree jumbed out of nowhere and attacted me thankfully i was armed.....the tree won though.

let me explain more what i ment, i didnt consider it abuse because it was a suspended log and i wasnt hitting it hard. i wasnt hacking into the log. not cutting it. no chopping.. some good pommelling though. i was softly striking the soft wood it a practice like manner to better understand how and angle would feel. snap .... there goes the sword.

but i do think the warranty is void...it was a log i was hitting.

turn it
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Jon Sama





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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 10:52 am    Post subject: thansk Jean.......         Reply with quote

Thanks Jean!!!

and thank you all. i did get all the knowlegde and advice i need for this project. now all i need is the modivation!!

ill give you guys some pics in a while.

cheers

turn it
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