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Marko J.





Joined: 21 Jul 2009

Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Help needed on a crusader sword         Reply with quote

Hello to all !

I'm new to the forum. I've been interested in the medieval warfare from childhood and I'm interested the most in the crusading era. So now is the time to get my first real blade. I'm most impressed by the oakshott type X, XI and XII which would fit in the crusading era.
However I would like to have a sword with period scabbard and some inscriptions or marks on the pommel and the guard. I like the albion sword of Arn and A&A sword of Saint Maurice wery much but unfortunately sword of arn with custom scabbard is too expencive for me, and the sword of saint Maurice doesn't come with a scabbard. So I would like to hear some opinions on what should I do. I would like to get a sword and a scabbard in 500 - 1000 range if possible.

First possibility is to buy the sword of saint maurice and order a custom scabbard for it.
Second possibility is to have an ordinary type X, XI or X II engraved with a cross on the pommel and some inscriptions on the guard and then order a custom scabbard for it (if someone can do that).
Third possibility is to vait for the Valiant armoury signature crusader, which also doesn't look bad, but it has no inscription on the guard.
So far I don't see any other option.

If you can help me in any way I would apreciate it very much.

Best regards to all,
Marko
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 1:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are you interested in learning how to make a scabbard? There's great information on this site to help you make something appropriate for whichever Albion you might select. Materials are very inexpensive and the skills are not too difficult to master.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Marko J.





Joined: 21 Jul 2009

Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unfortunately I'm not skilled enough to make anything that would deserved to be a combo with an albion sword :-)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Marko J. wrote:
Unfortunately I'm not skilled enough to make anything that would deserved to be a combo with an albion sword :-)


Not skilled enough yet.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Garrett Hazen




Location: California
Joined: 30 Aug 2006

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Are you interested in learning how to make a scabbard? There's great information on this site to help you make something appropriate for whichever Albion you might select. Materials are very inexpensive and the skills are not too difficult to master.

I would be interested in learning how to make a scabbard! A new acquired skill is always welcome.

Learn to obey before you command--Solon of Athens
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J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 3:56 am    Post subject: Re: Help needed on a crusader sword         Reply with quote

Marko J. wrote:

Second possibility is to have an ordinary type X, XI or X II engraved with a cross on the pommel and some inscriptions on the guard and then order a custom scabbard for it (if someone can do that).


This made me think of the ArmArt #S4B Knightly Sword w. bronze fittings and engravings, pictured here:

http://www.armart.antiquanova.com/medieval_11_13_century.htm

This one comes with a scabbard and belt. Or he will do custom engravings on the other plain models.
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Scott Kowalski




Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA
Joined: 24 Nov 2006

Posts: 804

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 5:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Marko,
Here is an option that comes with scabbard and belt as well.

Scott

http://valiant-armoury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=137

Chris Landwehr 10/10/49-1/1/09 My Mom
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 6:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don't limit yourself to just production items that have art/inscriptions on them. I would opt for a sword you really like, then have the engraving done to your personal taste. As for the scabbard, I started doing them last year, and I have already achieved a level of proficiency I am quite happy with. They are not hard, and there are a number of articles/threads here that could help you get started.
J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Marko J.





Joined: 21 Jul 2009

Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 8:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very hard to say, what should I do, right now. I know the armart "deus vult" sword, but it seems, armart is too unreliable, to trust them my hard earned money. Valiant armoury signature crusader is one of the options. Or an Albion sword, if someone could make me a nice scabbard for it, albions scabbards ar far too expencive for me. Does anyone know any reliable scabbard makers, but not the ones in the top dollar range?
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Nathan Gilleland





Joined: 25 Apr 2008

Posts: 199

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 11:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What would you consider the "top dollar range"? Off the top of my head, Brian brilliant work at DBK comes to mind, and he has multiple price tiers that are very accommodating.

I also know that it isn't hard to acquire the skills to make your own scabbard. You may have to make several to finish one that you are satisfied with, but it may be cheaper than buying one from a custom maker.

Seek Honor before Wealth,
Truth before Honor,
God Before all
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Marko J.





Joined: 21 Jul 2009

Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, for me the top dollar range for a scabbard is the price of a new Albion sword... If I buy a new albion sword for, let's say 600 , then I would pay 300 - 400 for a scabbard.
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Nathan Gilleland





Joined: 25 Apr 2008

Posts: 199

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would definitely then recommend Brian Kunz from DBK. His work is top notch and the price is very competitive. You may also look at Julien M's work in the UK. He's a member on this site who's been posting pictures of his customization work. He's currently working on a Gen 2 Henry V sword. Amazing work as well, though I don't know if he's doing any nonpersonal jobs.
Seek Honor before Wealth,
Truth before Honor,
God Before all
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For scabbards, I too put my support in for Brian at DBK. Fantastic work that's well within your budget I believe. Search around a bit for Brian K. 's posts and sample some of his work.

M.

This space for rent or lease.
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Mark Millman





Joined: 10 Feb 2005

Posts: 395

PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Help needed on a crusader sword         Reply with quote

Dear Marko,

On Tuesday 21 July 2009, you wrote:
Hello to all !

. . . I like the . . . A&A sword of Saint Maurice wery much but unfortunately . . . the sword of saint Maurice doesn't come with a scabbard. . . .

First possibility is to buy the sword of saint maurice and order a custom scabbard for it. . . .

So far I don't see any other option.

If you can help me in any way I would apreciate it very much.

Best regards to all,
Marko

Arms & Armor do make hard scabbards for their swords. Their scabbards page says, "The pricing for hard scabbards runs in the $500 to 900 range for most projects." (Scroll to the bottom of the page to see this; the Custom Scabbards section is the third one on the page.) This seems to fall into your price range, as the price for the sword itself is US$820 plus shipping.

Disclaimer: I am not associated with Arms & Armor, nor do I receive any benefit from them for this recommendation.

I hope that this proves helpful.

Best,

Mark Millman
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Marko J.





Joined: 21 Jul 2009

Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 8:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for all reply's so far. The problem is, that I'm not form US, so I will have to pay 20% VAT to the total value along with shipping, which can be quite costly. I also got a few PMs and I would like to thank those guys too. When reading all these sugdestions I made some serious thinking these past few days. So now, after a few days of thinking I think I'll probably buy myself an Albion templar from Albion Europe and then order a custom scabbard from someone from EU (does anyone know one?) or simply buy the new Valiant armoury crusader from Germany to avoid VAT. There's a internet store stationed in Germany, that sells Valiant armoury products, along with the new signature series.
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Marko,

I own the Templar and the Norman which would both be appropriate for the early crusading era.

Norman 1000-maybe used up until 1150.
Templar is harder to date but would fit in the late 12th-middle 13th. c. (a little later)

I like both but their character is very different. The Templar has more mass in the blade and seems especially suited as a cavalry weapon- though both are really cavalry swords. The Templar's pommel is quite massive to provide some balance to the impressive and noble blade.

The Norman has a bit of a thiner cross section and a more shallow fuller. It feels a bit lighter in the hand but still is quite powerful in the cutting department. The grip is thiner which also gives a different feel.

Between the two I would choose the Norman or the Senlac which shares the Norman's blade but has the straight guard.

THere is also the Hospitaller which looks awesome to me and is solidly a 12th. c. weapon with an absolutely classic design- but sadly I have not handled it.

I also own the Reeve which is quite different but would also fit the First Crusade and can discuss this if you would like.

If is was me I would go with Albion %100 without a doubt.

Jeremy
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Marko J.





Joined: 21 Jul 2009

Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 11:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm glad you guys are so helpful. As I said I never owned a sword before and I really can't decide what to do. Most members (through PM) are sugdesting an albion. I must say I also like Albions quality, simplicity, historical accuracy and character. I allready sent them an email yesterday about buying a templar, but so far no responce, it seems they are on vacation.

If just their scabbards wouldn't be so expencive.

I like the most the templar and the hospitaller - classic crusader swords.
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Nathan Gilleland





Joined: 25 Apr 2008

Posts: 199

PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Like I said before, you could certainly try sending Julien M. a PM to see if he'd be willing to work with you. I know that he's located in London, but I don't know what his policy is on outside/professional jobs right now. (Julien, if you're reading this, I don't mean to be overwhelming you, I just think you do outstanding work.)
Seek Honor before Wealth,
Truth before Honor,
God Before all
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Arma Bohemia could almost certainly do a custom sword and scabbard in your price range.
Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maybe it's better to approach this issue from the other side: what period attracts you most? First crusade? Second? Third? Later?

Or do you want a sword that could have been used in all crusades? Do you also want to include the crusades in the Baltic? If so, up to when?

If so, I think that you are more or less limited to a sword with an Oakeshott type X or XI blade with a wheel pommel. The appropriateness of symbols (e.g. crosses) or motto's (engraved or inlayed in the blade) also varies over time. Especially if you combine various styles, for instance add engraving to a brazil nut pommel, you can really narrow the suitable time frame down, and that may not be what you want.

And I would say that there is nothing wrong with a plain, undecorated sword either. Although not so many swords that did belong to crusaders have been found, I don't recall any of them being decorated in a specific manner.
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