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Margot S.





Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 12:31 am    Post subject: Small Helm help         Reply with quote

Hi, guys. I'm in a bit of a predicament.

I plan to have a costume harness made from aluminum to go to medieval fairs. I know a whole group of people who go in full harness and got excited when I was introduced to the idea of aluminum armor. I'd love to do this, but I've run into a bit of a problem. I'm a pretty small person, and I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to find a helm small enough to fit my head.

I'd really like something in the style of a close helm. Honestly, I really like the helm in the attachment. A lot. It's not feminine, but it's certainly the most feminine one I've seen. Haha

If you have any suggestions on where I could find one small enough for me, I'd really appreciate it. To my knowledge, I can fit a child's sized fencing mask (with a measurement of about 21 inches around and... Well, to tell the truth, measuring my head has brought me more questions than answers. It would seem that it's also roughly 21 inches tall from chin to crown. Is that even normal? I don't look strange, I don't think. Odd. Well, that's something for me to ask another forum. Haha )

I'd also take any sort of suggestions if anyone would like to point me in the direction of someone who could make an aluminum helm (that's hopefully not TOO expensive. I know how expensive these sorts of things can get.) Either of these suggestions or tips would be very helpful.

Thanks guys!

EDIT:
If anyone keeps up with production helms, I'd also really like to know if there are any closed helms (at least somewhat) in the style of the attachment helm that are maybe made a bit smaller than normal. I would just get a normal helm and pad it, but I'm afraid that would leave my head looking rather large in comparison to my body. I'm not too concerned with functionality (as you may have noticed by now :'P ), I'd just really like it to look right.



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Helm.jpg



Last edited by Margot S. on Thu 18 Jun, 2009 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 9:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Welcome! One thing to consider is that some reproductions might be sized on the assumption that they'll be used with very thin liners (or no liners at all). If you get one of those and add a liner of historically appropriate thickness, it might give you a good fit. In my experience, reproduction helmets tend to be much too big but I have a cheap steel cabasset that is much too small for an adult male head, even without a liner. If you're not 100 percent sold on a close helmet something like that, or maybe a converted civil defense helmet, might work for you. An open helmet would be much more comfortable for long-term wear and an imperfect fit is not quite as noticeable. Have you considered an open-faced steel sallet (like the one shown in my avatar)? You might find one in a useful size for less than you'd pay for a custom aluminum close helmet.

I suspect that you could put together a custom-sized, historically authentic kit of sallet, breast, spear, hose, shirt doublet and shoes without spending much more than you would for a more elaborate custom aluminum harness. in that scenario my best advice would be to get soft kit from Historic Enterprises and the armour from Francois L'Archeveque (the U.S./Canadian exchange rate makes custom work a bargain). Francois recently had a small unpolished breast in stock for an extremely agreeable price. It's not shown on his site but might fit you. Among other things, he offers a custom-sized, historically accurate steel sallet for $399 ($450 Canadian--the currency in which his prices are listed). I doubt you could beat that in a custom aluminum close helmet.

Francois L'Archeveque
http://www.flarcheveque.com/Homeb.html

Historic Enterprises
http://www.historicenterprises.com/

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Jonathan Atkin





Joined: 04 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 1:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just my humble opinion that you would be better off commissioning a helmet. Ill fitting equipment can be hazardous to ones health and a custom piece can be like a second skin oppose to a mass produced piece that your rattling around in. I'm very happy with my custom clang armory pieces and he's very accommodating, easy to work with. I started out with ice falcon pieces to break into the hobby which are good and sturdy and cheaper then custom. Good luck with your kit!
"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness''. - Theodore Roosevelt
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Margot S.





Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To Sean,

Thanks for all the help! However, I do really want a close helm. It's a personal preference of mine. I just think they look ...what's the word? Neat? I'd say neat.

I checked out the sites and, I'm afraid those sorts of things aren't in my budget. For a costume harness, that's a bit pricey. Heh heh... I'd like to have aluminum armor, not only because of the huge difference in weight, but the massive cut on expenses. For me, it looks just as good. I like the "shiney plate" look, if that makes sense.



To Jonathan,
Who makes your custom armor? I'd be interested to know how much it costs, and I'm curious to know if whoever it is would be willing to do anything with aluminum. Once again, cost cutting (it's MUCH easier to mold than steal. Much easier to puncture, too, but that's why it's a costume harness. :'P ) and hopefully they'll cut me a deal for my circumstance.

Thanks for all your help!
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Maurizio D'Angelo




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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Margot S. wrote:

I checked out the sites and, I'm afraid those sorts of things aren't in my budget.


Welcome Margot,
I hope that you succeed in having your helmet to little price.
Once worn the armor remembered to make you a photo. Then post it, here. Happy

Mau
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Margot S.





Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll remember to do that. Haha

I really hope for it to turn out good. I think it will, but you never know. I'm excited about it, to say the least!
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Nathan Gilleland





Joined: 25 Apr 2008

Posts: 199

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 6:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't know if it's what you're looking for, but try looking at Performance Armour. He does SCA armour, but he might be willing to size it to be worn without the SCA padding? I know that he did work in aluminum in the past... Pretty sure that he still does.

www.performancearmour.com

He was more than willing to work with me on designing a custom helmet (granted I was intending to buy it SCA fighting) so I would recommend checking out his site and sending him an email.

Seek Honor before Wealth,
Truth before Honor,
God Before all
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Margot S.





Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow! Thanks a lot. That sounds really helpful. I appreciate it.


It has come to my attention that aluminum might be more hassle than it's worth as far as the helm goes. So, a smaller gauged steel would work just as well, if not better. I'd be more than happy with that.

I'll definitely look into it.
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Peter Remling





Joined: 28 May 2004

Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 7:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I remember something from many years ago that might be able to be altered cheaply. It's a little out there but I found one on Ebay and am pm ing you the auction. With a little imagination and work I think it might work. Not exactly the same helmet you're looking for but similar.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This probably isn't what you want, but it's very cheap at the moment!

http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-746-16th-cent...elmet.aspx

You could give it a try and sell it in the Marketplace here if it doesn't work out for you.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Jonathan Atkin





Joined: 04 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Clang.adkinssoftware.com Mark does custom sizes and pieces in both mild (cheaper) and stainless (maint free but expensive)

And

www.icefalcon.com ice works in aluminum and stainless. Helmets and chest pieces are custom made to fit. Other items like arms and legs are more general size plus they sell some cool maille.

"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness''. - Theodore Roosevelt
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Margot S.





Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Remling wrote:
I remember something from many years ago that might be able to be altered cheaply. It's a little out there but I found one on Ebay and am pm ing you the auction. With a little imagination and work I think it might work. Not exactly the same helmet you're looking for but similar.


Hmm... I'm afraid I didn't get it. Mind sending again?
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well here is something " cheap " and if it's mostly just for costume use it should be O.K.

Would need a lining or suspension made though and I have no idea about sizing, but you could e-mail Ryan at Kult of Athena and ask him about more details about it and if would fit or be made to fit.

Oh, and if you ask, Ryan Whittlinger ( The owner ) might be able to suggest something else or special order a helm within your budget. ( They do mention somewhere on the site that if they don't have something in stock they might be able to get it and to ask ).

KoA is a very good and reliable vendor by the way.

Link to helm: http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~BH4~...acinet.htm

I have a helm in the same style but at 5X the price it's of much better quality and the custom helms suggested by others are from top or near top end makers and expensive.

Hope this helps and gives you another option to look into.

( Oh, and welcome to this site. Big Grin Don't forget to look at the various articles and features as there is a lot more here than the Forums. Wink Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Margot S.





Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 12:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh! Yeah, I forgot all about them! My boyfriend and a lot of his friends use that site. I hear it's really reliable. Thanks for that. The prices aren't bad at all, and are definitely more in my range.

Thanks for the welcome, by the way. Big Grin I'll be sure to do that.

There have been a lot of really helpful tips given to me, but I think I'll definitely look around that site and contact Mr. Whittlinger. That sounds like my best bet so far, considering that any custom work is going to be more pricey than what he'll give me, I'd be wiling to bet.
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James Arlen Gillaspie
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You can get a bascinet like that on ebay, including shipping, for less than $60.
http://cgi.ebay.com/KNIGHT-BASCINET-HELMET-Ba...url][/url]

jamesarlen.com
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Nathan Gilleland





Joined: 25 Apr 2008

Posts: 199

PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 12:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:
You can get a bascinet like that on ebay, including shipping, for less than $60.
http://cgi.ebay.com/KNIGHT-BASCINET-HELMET-Ba...url][/url]


It's not quite the same as the one that Jean linked to. I got one like the one pictured on ebay last year, and it's one of the few purchases that I regret. the helm isn't shaped to fit a human head by any stretch of the imagination, the visor refuses to stay up when you try to lift it, and the visor is held on by very modern bolts that notoriously loosen rapidly to the point of letting the visor fall off.

I would check KOA before looking on ebay...

Seek Honor before Wealth,
Truth before Honor,
God Before all
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Margot S.





Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ouch. Wow. I'll definitely be checking KoA, then.

I have to say, that would make me pretty mad to have spent money on something that ended up... being a piece of crap, to say the least.
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well if you see a helmet at a price that low it is extremely likely to be a crap. Not simply a poor quality Indian made item that you do not want to risk having on your head when someone hits it with a blunt blade but a real crap that you are unlikely to be able to wear properly.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Artis Aboltins wrote:
Well if you see a helmet at a price that low it is extremely likely to be a crap. Not simply a poor quality Indian made item that you do not want to risk having on your head when someone hits it with a blunt blade but a real crap that you are unlikely to be able to wear properly.


I would also say that the criteria for a helm that has to actually give you protection when " play fighting " or doing serious WMA training would be much more critical than one for costume use, but if cheap enough, a really cheap helm will have all sorts of issues making it uncomfortable, unwearable or just plain ugly.

Check with KoA and Ryan might be able to recommend something not posted on his site: A bascinet like the one I showed or an other type of closed helm of later period ? letting him know what period you would prefer and what period the rest of your kit is, can help in keeping things matched up by period or region, assuming you want to be close to historically accurate.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Hugo Voisine





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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Margot,

You could try asking Pavel Marek for a quote. His stuff is still relatively inexpensive compared to other makers, and his closed helms look just fine. Happy



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