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John Facundus




Location: Free State of Arizona, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 5:54 pm    Post subject: Thumb rings on sabers?         Reply with quote

Okay folks, I will admit it. How does the thumb ring on the saber function? Is it simply a way to prevent the opponents blade from sliding down during a block/ parry and slicing off you thumb...OR is it some sort of device for putting your thumb through to generate leverage and snap...I haver never handled one and I am sure our knowledgable crowd will enlighten me. Thanks in advance for any input. JF
"Live as brave men; and if fortune is adverse, front its blows with brave hearts." Marcus Tulius Cicero
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Gert-Jan Beukers




Location: Voorhout, The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's a guard for keeping your opponent's sword from sliding down... I have a 15th century Falchion with the same 'thumb ring' and yes, I tried to put my thumb in it... Blush and couldn't get it out Blush Also I notived that (at least on my falchion) the so called 'thumb ring' was on the other side. (right is were your thumb is left and vica versa) It's an guard..and fashion I believe.


Greetings,

Gert-Jan



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Correct me if I'm wrong.... I'm dutch
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 7:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gert-Jan Beukers wrote:
It's a guard for keeping your opponent's sword from sliding down... I have a 15th century Falchion with the same 'thumb ring' and yes, I tried to put my thumb in it... Blush and couldn't get it out Blush Also I notived that (at least on my falchion) the so called 'thumb ring' was on the other side. (right is were your thumb is left and vica versa) It's an guard..and fashion I believe.


Greetings,

Gert-Jan


Gert,
What you're showing is considered a side-ring. A true thumb-ring is supposed to have a thumb slipped through it. See the pic below:



The apparatus on the right side of the hilt is the thumb ring.

Here are some threads that deal with thumb rings:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=9240
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=8935
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=4925

Happy

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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is another one with a thumb ring, a !7th century German military sword.


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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 7:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thumb-rings help with a secure grip and, in my opinion, aide in creating powerful cuts. In this regard, it's not for protection (as other hilt parts are), but is a feature added to affect performance/handling characteristics.

From the Anatomy of the Sword article:


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Gert-Jan Beukers




Location: Voorhout, The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 9:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:


Gert,
What you're showing is considered a side-ring. A true thumb-ring is supposed to have a thumb slipped through it. See the pic below:

The apparatus on the right side of the hilt is the thumb ring.

Here are some threads that deal with thumb rings:



sorry *feels really stupid*

Correct me if I'm wrong.... I'm dutch
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
sorry *feels really stupid*


Gert, don't feel that way, man. How do you get to know unless you ask, eh ? B-)

How a thumb-ring looks with a THUMB in it ... and NR has it right, well made and well positioned
the thumb-ring will provide an incredible anchor to the gripping of such a sword as a saber.

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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I love thumb rings, but I've heard their major disadvantage is if the sword is knocked from your hand, the ring can really do a number on your thumb.
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Sa'ar Nudel




Location: Haifa, Israel
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
I love thumb rings, but I've heard their major disadvantage is if the sword is knocked from your hand, the ring can really do a number on your thumb.


Nevertheless, it seems that the thumb ring was quite popular over vast areas in europe of the 17th century.

Gert-Jan, what you have is a messer/hauswehr rather falchion. The side-ring is an element added in order to give an everyday implement more means of hand protection, thus making it more suitable for combat. The side-ring protects the knuckles from the side, as the regular guard is very small and exists only downwards. Fighting manuals show that if you need to parry a blow from your left, you should invert the hand holding the messer, so that you will absorb your opponent's blade by the side-ring. Check Talhoffer taffel 224: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...er_224.jpg

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John Facundus




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PostPosted: Sat 07 Mar, 2009 6:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great answers, thanks for the pics, that really clears things up, have a glorious day, JF
"Live as brave men; and if fortune is adverse, front its blows with brave hearts." Marcus Tulius Cicero
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Mar, 2009 1:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I split off the posts that were off-topic to this one. They can be found here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=15814
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