Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Need help identifying...farm tool or sword? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Kailee Rainey





Joined: 13 Feb 2009

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Need help identifying...farm tool or sword?         Reply with quote

I have friend who has had this sword for 30 years. She took it to an SCA meeting and was told it was 170-400 years old and looked asiatic or napoleanic. My husband says it looks more like a long farm implement than a sword, due to the lack of a hilt on the grip. The owner says it is a one-handed sword used for fighting on horseback and that the hole in the handle was to pull a scarf.rope through to tie to the wearer's wrist in order to prevent them from dropping the sword. THe handle is bone with a few 8 spoked wheels carved into it. The handle and grip are rustic, but the blade is incredibly sharp, with a bloodlet groove on each side. THe owner has fallen on some tough times, and is looking to see if this has any value. Any help would be appreciated.


 Attachment: 64.98 KB
IMG_0193.JPG


 Attachment: 51.09 KB
IMG_0194.JPG


 Attachment: 53.21 KB
IMG_0196.JPG


 Attachment: 36.37 KB
IMG_0199.JPG


 Attachment: 34.54 KB
IMG_0198.JPG


Kailee Rainey
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Nat Lamb




Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 385

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The fact it has a fuller makes it unlikely it is a farming implement. Also, there are some Cossak style sabres that don't realy have any form of crosguard on them. I don't know what it is but it certainly could be a sword, and and judging by the patern you describe it sounds like it could come from the 'Stans somewhere.
View user's profile Send private message
Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 224

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb, 2009 8:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

IMHO that's no farm instrument.

Would be helpful to have some measurements on the blade and better photo's of the blade. But clearly it appears saber- like. Perhaps a cuttoe or hunting sword, perhaps a caucus saber. Many russian, georgian, or kozak blades have hilts without crossguards. Up to WWII russians used such sabers. Never saw a handle with that exact design. The cutout is especially unique to my experience. If not original to the blade it could be a rustic rehilting, but if so, it looks quite old as well.

Use of bone and design with bosses in the hilt reminds me of hunting swords/cuttoes. If it is on the short side, (hard to tell with little to scale it against in the pictures), that would argue for cuttoe/hunting sword which were short sword length usually. If it slonger, that would support a cavalry type saber. It doesn't look arabic but possilbly could be Islamic saif type saber as well. Berber? Zanzibar? Very interesting.

But regardless, I would not think it is a farm implement.

A nice puzzle to figure out. More pictures and measurements would be helpful. How does the balance feel?

A cool little piece IMHO.

Terry

Terry Crain
A/K/A
Donal Grant

Honor, not Honors!
View user's profile Send private message
Jonathan Eells





Joined: 09 Dec 2007

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject: A leaf spring sword         Reply with quote

I'd bet a six pack that this sword was made from a leaf spring, probably off a truck. The hole in the handle fits with the leaf spring idea. I saw a ton of swords like this one in East Africa, back in the day.
View user's profile Send private message
Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 224

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb, 2009 10:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I looks like it has elements of a Cossack Shasqua, but the large handle hole does seems odd for that. North or East African? That may be, as it does have that tribal, roughly put together look that you sometimes see in such pieces. A leaf spring may explain the handle whole as you say. Really tough to be sure of anything without seeing the piece up close.

Terry

Terry Crain
A/K/A
Donal Grant

Honor, not Honors!
View user's profile Send private message
Jeff Demetrick





Joined: 11 Oct 2004

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb, 2009 8:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi All,

Terry is the closest. This is a Moroccan Berber sword.
http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=91

Hope this Helps
Jeff
View user's profile Send private message
Kailee Rainey





Joined: 13 Feb 2009

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Thanks Jeff         Reply with quote

That photo looks amazingly close to my friend's sword. Thank you giving us a direction to go! I dont have the sword in front of me, but I would guess the blade is over 2' long. probably even longer than 2.5'. Do you have any idea how old this would be? Was the SCA guy correct in the 180-400 year guess? I will look on the forums for a nearby reputable appraiser. Thanks for any help you can give her.
Kailee Rainey
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Jeff Demetrick





Joined: 11 Oct 2004

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Kailee,

These are usually 19th-20th century. Although they are fairly rare they usually don't fetch too much on e-bay.

All the Best
Jeff
View user's profile Send private message
Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,576

PostPosted: Mon 16 Feb, 2009 3:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Swords like these are often of african origin, and where quite common souverirs for sailors and such in the 1900s. There are a lot of them hanging on walls in Norway, for instance, because of this.
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Hal Siegel
Industry Professional



Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 30 Aug 2003

Posts: 113

PostPosted: Mon 16 Feb, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yup, Jeff nailed it - Berber, somewhat related to the Moroccan nimcha.

Pretty spiffy, here's my trio:


Hal Siegel - TherionArms
http://www.therionarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/TherionArms
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jonathan Eells





Joined: 09 Dec 2007

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon 16 Feb, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: THE POWER         Reply with quote

Yet again the sheer power of myArmoury is revealed! It's like having access to the Jedi Archives.
View user's profile Send private message
Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 224

PostPosted: Mon 16 Feb, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Hal,

Very nice grouping. Got quite the Berber armoury there. Very cool.

Best,

Terry

Terry Crain
A/K/A
Donal Grant

Honor, not Honors!
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 579

PostPosted: Mon 16 Feb, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice collection Hal! Do your swords have any European markings on them? I've heard that many eastern swords re-used European military blades.
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
View user's profile Send private message
Hal Siegel
Industry Professional



Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 30 Aug 2003

Posts: 113

PostPosted: Tue 17 Feb, 2009 6:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Terry Crain wrote:


Very nice grouping. Got quite the Berber armoury there. Very cool.


Hey, Terry, nice to "see" you, since I haven't made it up to Pennsic in years!

Ian Hutchison wrote:


Nice collection Hal! Do your swords have any European markings on them? I've heard that many eastern swords re-used European military blades.


No, none of the Berbers have any markings on them, which is actually kind of unusual for northern African swords.

I think the "eastern swords with European blades" meme is for the most part due to a Eurocentric denial of the craft abilities of other peoples - certainly there are many examples where European blades were re-hilted and re-used, but there are many more examples where the blades are locally made. Further confusing the issue is the use of sword marks as advertising - much like the profusion of "Andrea Ferrara" running-wolf marks that appeared on blades all over Europe as a sign of quality (whether or not they were actually made by Ferrara); northern African blades tend to have a profusion of marks, particularly stylized moons and stars, a "this is the good stuff!" mark that was copied from 1700's central and eastern European blades (the moons and stars can be seen on a lot of Austrian and Hungarian and Bohemian swords blades of the time), and the "you can be sure if it's stars and moons!" advertising traveled south through the 18th century. (This is also the mark you'll see on a lot of Sudanese kaskara, a cruciform style sword that some folks mistakenly think are "made from old crusader sword" blades.)

Hal Siegel - TherionArms
http://www.therionarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/TherionArms
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Need help identifying...farm tool or sword?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2020 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum