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Li Jin




Location: NYC
Joined: 21 Feb 2008

Posts: 46

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject: Practice with sharpe sword?         Reply with quote

Hi everyone:)

One of my friend just started German longsword, and he wanted to practice with a Sharpe sword. I was wondering if doing so is illegal? Or does any other practice group does so or recommends so? Thank you guys.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 10:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

We make mistakes when we're learning a new skill. Persuade your friend to try a blunt sword or waster for a week. The first time he hits himself in the head or leg, he'll thank you for saving him a trip to the hospital. There's no shame in matching the training tool to the skill level.

There's also the matter of earning the privilege of training with a sharp sword. It's as true in WMA as in EMA. Who walks into their first kendo or kenjutsu class expecting to be given a sharp sword to train with?

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Fri 30 Jan, 2009 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Michael B.
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Location: Chugiak, AK
Joined: 18 Oct 2007

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 10:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would check with local and state laws concerning sharp swords. In my state, we are allowed to carry them anywhere, as long as they remained sheathed at our side, or on the back in a baldric, however, we can pull them in self-defense. Interesting enough, only once has any of my associates been questioned, when he was on campus at the univeristy, but he said he was rehearsing for the play and they let him go. But, let's be honest, what person is going to pick a fight with someone wearing a sword?
When students reach a certain level, we don't discourage the use of sharps in practice. It's a very important part, a sharp sword handles very differently than a practice blunt, so to understand the body mechanics fully, you must use a sharp at some point. In our salle, there are no sharps allowed while another student is on the floor, and of course no fighting, winding, or metrics against another with them.
If your friend is just starting out, I would discourage the use of a sharp until he understood the basics at least, and just work with a blunt for now.

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Michael Bergstrom
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Li Jin




Location: NYC
Joined: 21 Feb 2008

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for replies. I didn't mention the situation clearly, using a Sharpe sword to practice, what my friend did is using Sharpe swords to do sparring with hes partner, is this recommended for anyone? I though people could get cut and hurt for that.
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Michael B.
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Location: Chugiak, AK
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 11:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

NO. No one should practice against another with a sharp, NOT EVER. One mistake could cost an arm, a leg, or someone's life! These are not toys, but deadly weapons. Would you shoot at your friends with a rifle with live ammo instead of going to a shooting range? Even going metrics with sharps has too much liability and risk.
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Michael Bergstrom
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eek! Is your friend aware that swords are lethal weapons? It's not meant to be a condescending question--some people genuinely seem to not understand this. You can see the same phenomenon with firearms--note the "adults" who recently thought it would be perfectly fine for a child to fire a submachine gun, and now face involuntary manslaughter charges as a result.

This isn't hard. A sharp sword is designed to make homicide as efficient as possible. Handle accordingly!

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Anders Backlund




Location: Sweden
Joined: 24 Oct 2007

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 12:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, this has "Darwin Award" written all over it.

Very, very bad idea.

The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.

"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
Joined: 02 Sep 2008

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In Italy you can move "proper weapons" (as sharp swords) only if you have a pass, and only in safe condition's (i.e. in the back of a truck, locked or immobilized). Even "not-proper weapons" can be subject to limitations, at the discretion of the police (like an axe: in theory you can bring it everywhere, in pratice if you walk in a bar with a double-head unsheathed in your hands you can be arrested).

I'm only a very beginner in the art of the sword, but even with metal blunt weapons I've received some nasty bruises. If that time at Lodi they had use real arrows now I'll be dead for extreme bloody loss...
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Felix R.




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 1:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anders Backlund wrote:
Yeah, this has "Darwin Award" written all over it.

Very, very bad idea.


Maybe we find this on top of the list next year WTF?!
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Andreas Auer




Location: Innsbruck, Tirol, Austria, Europe
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eek! Eek! Eek! sorry but i just cant believe this... Eek! Eek! Eek!
The secret is,
to keep that pointy end thingy away from you...
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Dan P




Location: Massachusetts, USA
Joined: 28 Jun 2007

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 2:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a terrible idea which is going to end badly for everyone involved.
Even if there are no criminal laws against it, sparring with another person using sharp swords is probably grounds for a reckless endangerment or wrongful death liability. And maybe a Darwin Award.

On extremely rare occasions I've practiced locks and disarms- NOT defenses against actual attacks/sparring, and definitely not at full speed- with live knives. Under controlled conditions. Which is still extremely dangerous and no one should really be doing this. But sparring with sharp swords is just a stupid way to get hurt, and no one is going to learn anything except how to get to the hospital really quickly.
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Steven Janus




Location: Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 3:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd say if he wants to do test cutting and get into slicing bottles and such, nothing wrong with starting with a sharp. However why would you want to use one to practice with? I mean, unless if it was a fight to the death which shouldn't be necessary in modern times generally speaking. I mean, common sense should prevail here. If your friend wants to practice form and perfect strikes then setting up a cutting stand with water bottles, milk jugs, listerine bottles, etc. is a great way to learn how a sword cuts and will greatly help improve your form. If he perfers sparing, well then yeah use a blunt. It's not that hard of a concept really. Blunts are for sparing, sharps are for practice cutting. Really, it is that simple.
Newbie Sword collector
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to ask, is the OP serious?

If so, please:

NO SHARPS FOR PRACTICE SPARRING!

J.E. Sarge
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"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 7:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Recipe for serious injury or death for one practice partner, prison for the other.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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M. Eversberg II




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You know, I've witnessed some soldiers in the infantry schools of the Marine Corps practicing with real bayonets, and was wondering if any WMA/EMA people had done the same...personally, I failed to see the value of the exercise, as you could not practice full speed...well, I see some value, but not much.

M.

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Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan, 2009 12:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This injury was caused by a Gladius sword that missed the target and bit deep into the cutters leg, causing him to lose one gallon of blood and requiring 55 stiches and emergency surgery.

Swords are not toys.



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sword-injury.jpg

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Felix R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan, 2009 7:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

@ Reece

Did the cutter wear clothes at the leg or was he bare skinned?
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P. Cha




PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan, 2009 11:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Andreas Auer wrote:
Eek! Eek! Eek! sorry but i just cant believe this... Eek! Eek! Eek!


Sadly the local ARMA group around here several years back did the exact same thing. Well almost, it wasn't for sparring but they did use sharps for their drills. They spouted the mantra of "we have control so it's okay"....Yeah...*facepalm*.

Li Jin...tell your friend to never EVER go back to that group again. Or if he does bring a gun so he can shoot them dead in self defense when they come at him with a sharp sword.
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Bartek Strojek




Location: Poland
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

@ Reece

ONE gallon? Eek!

But as far as I know humans have about 6,5 liters of blood TOPS. So if gallon is 4,5 liters, he lost almost all to 2/3 of his blood...


Also , it seems that he cut himself in the back of the leg. With missed cut one would expect cutting oneself to the front?
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Adam Smith





Joined: 01 Jan 2009

Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I asked myself the same question as Bartek. It seems difficult to slice your own calf that deeply at that angle from a missed cut.
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