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Nathan M Wuorio




Location: Maine.
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri 28 Nov, 2008 11:58 pm    Post subject: People's "fear" of swords. (for lack of a better t         Reply with quote

Hi all, I just need to vent something here and see what others have to say. Here goes: I had asked for 2 small blades for Christmas, a Windlass P-1879 Artillery Saw-Back Bayonet from Atlanta Cutlery, and a Napoleonic Briquet Sabre from Military Heritage. Both of these blades were about $145, and originally my parents said that was fine. Now, since I'm 16 I can't order blades on my own, (sucks, right?) I depend on my parents to help me with this. They order, I pay. But these were gifts. I had a few concerns that I hoped would not come to pass, namely my parents refusing to buy blades anymore, as my parents dislike sword collecting. They think it's weird, and swords are "creepy" in their book. I had always known that my father disliked my hobby, but he had never openly refused to use his card and have me hand him money. I considered this a victory. Back on to my original point: even though both of the blades I was asking for were relatively inexpensive, they now say they won't get them as Christmas gifts. When I asked them why, they said it was because of the cost, but when pressed further, I found out it was because they just don't like swords, which they consider deadly weapons. I have tried many times to convince them that it's a collection, not a weapons cache. My parents said that they would gladly spend the same amount of money on something else, just not swords. Has this ever happened to anyone else? Ever encounter a "fear" of swords?
Sorry for the long post. Had to get that out there.

Nathan.
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P. Cha




PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 12:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My mom is afraid of knives...even kitchen knives. Oddly enough, she's okay with swords. It might be cultural thing, but she considers swords to be noble.

Anyways, swords ARE dangerous weapons. Your parents can choose what they wanna get you as a gift or not. And it is even very nice of them to buy swords for you at all. Most parents who disaproves wouldn't give their 16 year old that much freedom. Anyways, one way to help out is attach the sword to history. For christmas, instead of 145 dollars for a sword get 145 dollars worth of history books. When swords are attached to history, it eases a lot of people's mind. And when you do research on a sword or blade, invite your mom or dad to help. Get them interested as well.
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Luka Tic





Joined: 25 Mar 2007

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 1:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You don't have to prove you're 18 or over to buy edged weapons.
Just look for a local seller and pay via cash on delivery.

Luka
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 1:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My parents would not let me own swords when I was 16 either.

But when I was 16, they had no problem letting me keep my hunting rifle (a Remington 700) in my closet, letting me work a job where I stayed out to 2am closing on weeknights, or giving me a 4000lb automobile to drive around unsupervised when I barely had enough experience to keep it between the white lines. Big Grin

Makes absolutely no sense at all...

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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B. Stark
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Location: ORYGUN
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 1:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JE Sarge wrote:
My parents would not let me own swords when I was 16 either.

But when I was 16, they had no problem letting me keep my hunting rifle (a Remington 700) in my closet, letting me work a job where I stayed out to 2am closing on weeknights, or giving me a 4000lb automobile to drive around unsupervised when I barely had enough experience to keep it between the white lines. Big Grin

Makes absolutely no sense at all...


+1...except it is up to the parents to decide what is allowable for their child (their responsibility both socially, legally and economically) to have in their posession. It may not seem reasonable to us who had parents of different backgrounds and outlook. I started collecting swords when I was about 12. Granted the sword in question was only an old Marto Charles V. A piece of sharpenable steel nonetheless.

I think it comes down to exposure, which was touched upon. Times were different when I was young and swords were a 'quaint curiousity' not a 'deadly weapon'. For all that a rock is a 'deadly weapon', it just depends on intent and the skill of the user.

I say take it easy with the Parental units. We are bombarded with fear and anxiety inducing information on a daily basis some of which have nothing to do with child rearing...familiarity is the key. By the time your parents are familiar with swords to the point of not being concerned you'll be 18 and can by them whenever and however you choose.

"Wyrd bi∂ ful aræd"

Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense?

Patrick Henry
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 6:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Tic wrote:
You don't have to prove you're 18 or over to buy edged weapons.
Just look for a local seller and pay via cash on delivery.


Please make sure you observe all local, state, and federal laws regarding weapons sales. Going the route Luka is suggesting may be illegal and get you and the seller (not to mention this site) in trouble.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 7:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As Chad mentioned what Luke recommended could be a big no-no. If you really want to upset your parents getting into legal problems over a weapon will do it. Then you will likely never see another sword again until you live far, far away from them. Where I grew up you were required by law to produce a valid license with your B-day on it. Without this no sale. End of Story. Now here in the UK they look at you and figure if you look old enough but if in doubt they will card you. I actually know of several states in the US that that do this as well with anything from knives up.

My parents were not fond of swords, axes, maces etc. either. In the end this is an important lesson. You are their child until you reach adulthood. Parents might not always make choices as you'd have them but you still need to respect them. I have several friends who spent their entire teen years at war with their parents to find out in 90% of what they fought over their parents were right. And if they are wrong well with so many choices give them a break, that 10% is bound to happen at some point.

My Mother especially did not like weapons or the fact I made armour. At first the mail did not bother her, except the loose links that killed her vacuum. Then when I moved to plate, the noise, sharp bits of metal and my slow encroachment into most of the one half of the garage was a pain. Then the old neighbour lady kept coming over to complain (Mostly she came by when I was not actually working….. yeah it must have been really loud, my guess is she was just a bitter old lady or senile) which put more pressure on them. In the end I was able to talk it out with my Dad and we established some rules for armour making and I continued to do this until I moved out. Now I make my own rules but still have them in my own house.

So if your parents say no then talk with them. Find out what bothers them and try to figure out what the real issue is. If they make them uncomfortable then they make them uncomfortable, and no debating or argument will change that. I have loads of swords now, all I currently own bought after my 18th, most after my 21st B-day. You are young no reason to worry too much about it at your age. Frustrating now but in a few years you’ll realize it was not a big issue. When you have your first child this realization will change even more so.

So to wrap up. You are not alone. Most of us have something our parents did that we did not like. Usually we swear we will never do it then once we are older…. We do. Next talk it out. Find out what their issue with it are. If they have real concerns be respectful and wait. Two year seems forever but it is really just two years. Respect their wishes even if they are not yours. Its hard friend. We have all been there. Just remember that respect is two ways and if you disrespect them they have less incentive to think your decisions are adult ones.

Good luck.

RPM

Another option..... buy armour Big Grin
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Anders Backlund




Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think my parents consider my fascination for swords a bit odd, but they've never expressed any direct dislike or discomfort with it.

On a side note, my mom is a pacifist and dislikes weapons in general, yet she likes wuxia movies for some reason. Wink

The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.

"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Justin King
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 11:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can remember the disappointment of "parental vetos", but as others have said, your parents have the final say until you are of legal age, and their wishes should be respected whether you agree with them or not. If you cannot demonstrate the maturity level to respect their authority while you live in their house then you have not demonstrated the maturity level that should be required of one who collects deadly weapons.
When you support your own household and/or have your own kids you will undertstand your parent's point of view much more intimately than you are going to like. If you have younger siblings in the house this may be a major concern for them, I have a 3 year old and have had to change my own habits with my swords. I don't trust even myself to handle sharps in the house when he is home, and there isn't a 16 year old in the world who I would trust to do so either, no offense intended. The risks are very real, and not always as obvious as you would think.

On a more constructive note, if I were in your shoes, unable to buy swords, I would buy some literature and do some study. This is a major part of collecting for many and can help you to understand and appreciate your particular interests on a deeper level and also may lead you to new interests and discoveries.

Two years can seem like a long time but some collectors save up this long or longer for a single sword, and a two-year wait is actually typical anymore for having a custom sword made, so it is largely a matter of perspective. You could save up for the intervening two years and buy yourself an original or two on your 18th birthday, or comission a custom piece before then and make payments on it, and have something really special when your time does come.
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Lucas LaVoy




Location: New Orleans, LA
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I heartily second the idea of building up your library; it's hard to imagine your parents objecting to your desire to buy books! Another compromise idea might be to see if they would be alright with you getting set up with some training tools. For instance, you could get a perfectly good fencing saber (and probably the mask too) for the price of the military heritage sabre. This way by the time you are allowed to buy your own swords, you'll have a good skills foundation to go with them.
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B. Stark
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lucas LaVoy wrote:
I heartily second the idea of building up your library; it's hard to imagine your parents objecting to your desire to buy books! Another compromise idea might be to see if they would be alright with you getting set up with some training tools. For instance, you could get a perfectly good fencing saber (and probably the mask too) for the price of the military heritage sabre. This way by the time you are allowed to buy your own swords, you'll have a good skills foundation to go with them.


Another +1...Perhaps a waster would be less threatening to your parents? As far as I know there is no age limit to owning a wooden training sword(s) in the style that appeals to you. In that respect you could begin to understand technique more completely as well as the history behind the sword. Another suggestion is if you are wanting to explore the basic dynamics of cutting a machete(which is a tool) is a non-threatening place to start. Not knowing where you live however might prohibit even that.

"Wyrd bi∂ ful aræd"

Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense?

Patrick Henry
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dear Nathan,

I am sword lover, but I am also a Dad who has raised a couple of boys (one older than you, one slightly younger). So I will give you both perspectives.

First, yes, some people have a visceral fear of implements designed to kill. At first my wife was afraid of my swords just hanging on the wall. She seemed to get over that. The other day I made the mistake of letting her watch me slice a big pumkpin clean through with an unsharpened sword. That put her right back into her state of fear for a few days.

Regarding your parents, no doubt they are just trying to be good parents. I consider myself to be pretty sensible, but I did some pretty damn crazy things when I was a teenager. Most Dads will look back and say the same thing. I would not want to be responsible for putting something in my kids hands that resulted in a serious accident.

I suggest that you:

a) educate them in why you have this interest (e.g., show them that you are interested in serious history or supervised martial arts, not fantasy and play)

b) develop and show them your plan for safe handling. Where they will be kept, what are the boundaries that they will not be crossed, how you will handle them, how you will keep them safe, especially from your friends (who may not be a sensible as you 100% of the time...especially after the party).

(part of my own plan is that I only keep unsharpened weapons, I keep them in my office, and I do not allow my young son to handle my swords without supervision, and even then only in a limited way. )

c) point out that a sword for example (at least unsharpened) in some ways is less dangerous than a kitchen knife. It really takes intent to go to your 'secure place', get the sword out, and swing it at someone, whereas a sharp knife is readily available, easily concealed, and can kill with a flick of the wrist.

If all else fails...rejoice for thou art young. As stated above, you can study a few years and then you will be a legal adult with a lifetime of collecting ahead of you (not to mention, a job and mortgage).

- JD
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have sent Luka Tic a private message regarding his post above. To anybody reading this site, I must stress with emphasis that the avocation of illegal activities including the discussion of tactics to avoid laws controlling the use and ownership of edged weaponry for minors is absolutely to be kept off of this site. As an official stance, we at myArmoury.com condemn this practice. It has been and will remain part of our mission to promote a responsible and lawful pursuit of the hobbies surrounding the interest in historical arms and armour. Should there be any questions or comments regarding this point, they can be directed to me via email or private message.

Thank you.

.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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JE Sarge
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What about a compromise?

Your parents could buy and you legally could own training blunts, such as models offered by Tinker, VA, CAS/Hanwei, Albion, and A&A. I would try to negotiate the purchase of a quality training blunt and work on my swordsmanship skills in addition to getting a start on some cutler practice (scabbard, belt design, re-wraps, acid etching, etc...). Plus, let's be completely honest, I am 38 and still purchase training blunts; they are the one thing you can never have enough of and play a very important part in any collection.

Then, when your parents do consent for you to have sharps, you will be good and ready; not sitting on the side lines waiting for would seem an eternity.

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Sam Gordon Campbell




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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well I guess the plus side is that you even have access to readily available swords, where I live it's not illegal to own them (to the best of my knowledge) but it's damn hard to get them in the first place. Well the real ones anyway, plenty of SLOs, not many actual swords haha.
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
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Nathan M Wuorio




Location: Maine.
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all for your insightful and helpful words. Some training blunts sounds like a good idea, but I'm interested in sabres and cutlasses, are there blunts for those? Compromising and talking with them sounds good as well, I already have a plan for my current collection, storage, use, rules etc. It just helps to have others who are interested in swords and understand the fascination with them, their design, use, and construction.

Any other ideas will be much appreciated, and happy holidays!

Nathan.
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Nov, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan,

One thing perhaps not said enough of is security storage as well. This is a very important aspect of ownership of any dangerous item. Many parents that have younger children will not want a weapon anywhere near where a child can get it. I think I am on that list as well. If you have a nice solid adn secure lock up perhaps less of a problem.

I am sure someone has blunt sabers. Let me look around for a few seconds. I think CAS does.

RPM
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Michael Pikula
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PostPosted: Sun 30 Nov, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Seeing as I suppose I am fairly young, 25, it seems like it was not all that long ago that I bought my first sword, and yes, it was without my parents knowing... Granted it was a Star Fire so there was no cutting edge, but still, over time I have learned not only what a swords truly is, but the respect that it must be given. The other day I was measuring a nod and placed my fingered to mark where it was and as I lifted it up with my hand the edge gave me a gentle reminder of what it was used for.

The first person that I worked for that was making swords back in the 80's told me something that I still remind myself of to this day, "a sword is like a gun that you can't unload and there is no safely button" Back when I was 16, or even 21 this would not have made as much sense as it does now, and part if it is becoming familiar with the personally of the weapon.

If I had to go back, I probably wouldn't listen to the advice I am about to give, but, study and learn. That is the most important thing that you can do. Learn about what makes a good blade, what is the difference between a sharpened piece of metal and a sword. If you get the chance try to find a collector that lives around you and talk with them, see if you can see their collection. Try to handle as many blades as you can from "mall swords" to going to a museum and looking though the glass. It never hurts to look around at antique shops to see if in some dusty corner there might be a saber that someone found in their attic that was one that was used during the civil war. Try to get as much hands on learning as you can and also train your brain. Know what you want to collect, what quality you want to collect, so that when the time comes you can make an educated decision as to what quality weapon you would like to add to your collection.

Trust me, we all have that little itch that can only be cured by adding one more sharp and pointy thing to our collection, but I would advise that knowing what you want in your collection and starting off with the right purchases will feel a lot better then making an uninformed decision to purchase a piece you might later regret because that money could have been saved and spent towards.......

Just a thought though!
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Frank Mahoney





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PostPosted: Sun 30 Nov, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is another route you could go. You could take up fencing, or another weapon martial art. Stress that it's good excercise, develops physical and mental control, and so forth. Then ask them to spring for training equipment. You're learning something, you're getting excercise, you're meeting people and socializing, and you've got a clever ruse for normalizing the presence of swords in the house.
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Bennison N




Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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PostPosted: Sun 30 Nov, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I used to have to hide my swords, knives, daggers, 3-section staves, etc., away from my religious parents... I built a whole underground structure under my Dad's brocolli patch in his garden with two locked doors, insulated against moisture, temperature gauge and everything. They found it earlier this year... It had been there for probably 15-16 years, and has hidden far more than weapons, haha! Interestingly, despite having been underneath very rich soil, and set in the volcanic clay soil this whole town is built on, it hadn't aged much.

Family attitudes change though... The older of my two younger sisters used the wooden swords I hand-carved... for hours and hours... for my nephews as tomato plant stakes in her garden. Yet the younger of my sisters let me buy her 1 year old his own rubber sword 2 weeks ago (it's a katana, when he gets the swing of that, we'll move him onto rapiers or jian... do they make rubber schiavone?), and show him how to use it. Like I said, things change...

I agree that you should buy books. Especially if you are considering collecting for life. Because the longer you do it, the sooner cheaper swords just aren't going to do it for you anymore. Books will give you the knowledge to spot the good ones, and to explain to people the significance and features of what you own already.

And I agree you should buy blunts. Or woodies. I worked it out the other day, and I've owned over 100 woodies of different types, woods, etc. And that doesn't include bamboo. If you want to be good, you need to practice. And if you're not good yet, you don't want to use a sharp blade, trust me. I could've avoided so many stitches if I'd realised that sooner... Haha!

You might also want to try getting your parents to pay for your instruction. Give it a go... Join a club, do a few competitions. Learn saber... It'll show your olds that you're serious about swords, and you'll get some crazy skills... Saber Fencing's an Olympic sport... Parents like their kids to do sports, right?

And it'll show you're not weird, just a nice kind of different!

"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius

अजयखड्गधारी


Last edited by Bennison N on Sun 30 Nov, 2008 1:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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