Spanish/Portuguese sword rapier for coments -- myArmoury.com

Fernando Viana

This one will be home for Christmas.
Blade 98 cms (38 1/2"), with 20 mm (3/4") width.Total length 114 cms (45"), which makes it almost two inches "off mark" Eek!

, as the period allowance was five palms (110 cms=43").
The huge cup bowl is 16 cms (6.3") wide, which is the largest cup this seller ever sold.
Attributed date by the seller around 1700.
Slightly faded inscription on the blade reads in one side VIVA EL REY and on the other DE PORTVGAL.
Fernando

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Photobucket image

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

Beautiful, Fernando! I am a big fan of that type of grip.

I've always found it interesting that the Spanish continued to use this style of sword well into the 18th century. Thanks for sharing this!

Fernando Viana · Posted: Thu 20 Nov, 2008 10:35 am Post subject:

Thank you Bill.
In fact, cup hilted sword "survivors" were still a resource for the population in the first half of the 19th century ... at least in the various Portuguese civil wars.
Fernando

Shahril Dzulkifli

Fernando, your sword's tip looks blunt. Will you consider sharpening it?

Fernando Viana

Hi Shahril,

David Black Mastro · Posted: Tue 25 Nov, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject:

That's a nice-looking cup-hilt rapier.

What's also interesting is that cup-hilted swords were sometimes fitted with broadsword blades--eg., the bilbo (the guard is actually two shells, but it seems similar enough to the cup-hilt), and the "Caribbean cup-hilt" broadsword (considered by at least some curators to merely be a bilbo variant) that was evidently so popular with pirates. I've handled a couple of original "Caribbean cup-hilts", and the most striking thing I have found about them is that, despite the substantial blade and truly vestigal pommel, they have all been light and well-balanced. Such swords were even issued to Pampangan soldiers in the Spanish service in the Philippines, so they apparently figure into the history of eskrima too.

Bruce Willis · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Great rapier

Bom Dia Fernando,

For some reason, I can email you so I am posting a link to my 17th Century Portuguese Mer unit here in California.

Make sure you see the photos. I think you will appreciate them.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/companhiasantaisabel/

Bruce

Fernando Viana · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject:

Hi Rodrigo, boa noite,
That's nice Happy

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Are these reenactors Portuguese folks? Azorean or Continental?
Do you belong in this group?
Where are they based?
Meus cumprimentos
Fernando

Fernando Viana · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject:

Bruce Willis · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject:

Fernando,

We are in California. The man in red is a Spanish pig. He is an inquisitor to ensure our loyalty. We portray mercanarios in Asia. When I was living in Thailand, I did alot of research on the large Portuguese private armies of the Siamese rulers. Siam was never colonized, but up to 40,000 Portuguese mercs served there in various armies from 1520-circa 1640.

This event is our annual Thai New Year Parade. We actually serve as bodyguards for a 6 year old Siamese princess, who is actually portrayed by a Salvadorean. That's USA for you. She's half Mayan so she passes.

Bom Dia Amigo.

Bruce
aka Rodrigo

Fernando Viana · Posted: Wed 26 Nov, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject:

Magnificent Bruce; outstanding Happy

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I am not a cultured guy, but i have already been through this Mercenary situation in Siam and around. I guess i have to go back to that material once more.
Sorry for my confusion, what is your nationality ... i mean your origins ? Confused

... That is, if you don't mind to tell Wink

Fernando

Shahril Dzulkifli

It's weird to see a Salvadorean girl portraying a Siamese princess.
To me, the boy with the flag and 2 other princesses (or queens, who knows?) are Thai-Americans.

Bruce Willis · Posted: Sun 30 Nov, 2008 3:29 am Post subject:

Fernando,

100% American. However, my grandparents were all Jews from Ukraine, Baltics, Galicia, and Germany.

Shahil,

This is America. We have Chinese doing WW2 German. I take it your Georgian. In my WW2 group, we have a Georgian Legion (German) that is commanded by a guy who is half Japanese and his wife who runs the German Red Cross medics is Mexican-American of Celtic Spanish ancestry.

In my 16th Century Scottish clan, our fiddler is black and one of our top champions is Native American but they all proudly portray Celts. God Bless America, only in America.

As far as the princesses go. We know have three; one is Mexican-American, one is Salvadorean, and our newest 10 year old is half Japanese, half German. Next year our son (who is half-Thai) will join. The flag carrier is Mexican.

Confused, yet?

Bruce Willis · Posted: Sun 30 Nov, 2008 10:29 am Post subject:

Oh yes, and I have a re-enactor friend. He is Japanese-America. He is a Union Army colonel, commander of our Imperial Japanese WW2 unit, and a real-life officer and veteran in the US Army Reserve.

Bruce

David Black Mastro · Posted: Sun 30 Nov, 2008 11:57 am Post subject:

Portuguese mercs also fought for the Chinese at that time, and they were also part of the manpower of the wako.

Bruce Willis · Posted: Sun 30 Nov, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject:

David

Right you are. These mercs were all over Asia; India, China, Japan, East Indies, Burma, Siam, and even had a large presence in the various armies of East Africa.

Here's are great books on this subject;
http://www.amazon.com/Pirate-Far-East-811-163...amp;sr=8-1

ttp://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Chinese-Armies-1520-1840-Men-at-Arms/dp/1855326558/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228075286&sr=1-3

Apparently, there were many black mercs in these contingents too. I don't know if they were slaves are freedmen. Many Portuguese also merc'd themselves out to the Spanish in Nueva Espana post conquest. There were a number Portuguese noblemen on Coronado's expedition.

Here are some pics of our new armies being trained

David Black Mastro · Posted: Sun 30 Nov, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject:

Fernando Viana · Posted: Tue 02 Dec, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject:

Fernando Viana · Posted: Tue 02 Dec, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject:

Bruce Willis · Posted: Tue 02 Dec, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject:

David

I think we've been reading the same books.

Fernando, please send me your info on PDF.

Fernanod, you are Portuguese. That means you are Romano-Celt with probably some Berber and Sephardic blood. Be proud, my friend. You come from a very ancient and proud land.

Here are my favorite Portuguese Merc Pics