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Allen Foster





Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 244

PostPosted: Wed 12 Nov, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Buy Yourself Something for Christmas "You deserve it&qu         Reply with quote

Fellow Members and Guests:

I would like to offer the following proposition for debate, discounting or support.

Buy Yourself Something for Christmas in Support of our Manufacturer’s Families campaign. After all "You Deserve it":


In being a part of the sword and armory community for a short while several things have become apparent to me.

1) This community is made up of very intelligent and exceptionally gifted individuals whose knowledge and ability on the subject arms, armour, European martial arts and history are unsurpassed.

2) This community is very small.

As a small and select group, it seems to me that common sense would dictate that ripples in the arms industry or new historical discoveries effect the community in very large magnified ways. If you agree with my premise, then please understand my sense of urgency when I say that I believe that we are near the cusp of a major change that may hurt the very movement for which we all are so passionate about.

I am speaking of the very difficult times the manufacturing community is having in the present economy. I have heard quotes that sales are down by as high as 50%. Even the most knowledgeable among us have fallen prey to the false assumption that high prices mean high profit margins to our manufacturers. More likely the high price reflects very high quality workmanship and in the end the artisans don't do much better than minimum wage for the time that’s put into their work. My concern is that with another downturn in the economy we may not have as many of these top notch craftsmen and/or companies from which we obtain our diversions and justify the reason many of us meet here on line. Without the announcement of new swords and products on a regular basis many of us would eventually lose interest and the movement in my opinion would fade away.

With the holiday season approaching I propose that we in the arms, armor, WMA and historical community give back to our manufacturing community.

Therefore, I would like to propose that all who can afford to do so or are thinking about doing so place an order from your favorite manufacturer prior to the Christmas holidays in support of their families and in thanks for their efforts to provide us with quality; historical accurate and functional products that give us so much pleasure. I believe that if we as a community and movement can help our manufacturers get through the next eighteen months, then we all come out stronger and potentially avoid taking a step backwards or worst becoming just a footnote of a movement that died before its time.
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Sean Flynt
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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Nov, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just might do this. I have some projects in mind anyway, and this serves as a reminder to try and help out those who dedicate their professional lives to the research and manufacture of fine arms and armour.

I'm as tapped-out as other folks, but thinking about this over just the last couple of days I find that I'm actually more inclined to pay more for arms and armour from independent domestic manufacturers. This is partly due to empathy for independent professional manufacturers (vs. mass production companies or even top-quality custom manufacturers who don't depend on the work for a living) and partly due to the refinement of my tastes.

It's a good time to take the advice often heard here, selling or trading away several mass-produced pieces of lesser quality in favor of acquiring one new piece made by somebody who actually understands and cares about the work, and who needs customers in order to eat and pay the mortgage. I'm almost at the end of my ability to do that. When the cheaper stuff is gone I'll have to sell some fine, one-of-a-kind custom swords to finance new purchases (really "new", meaning bought directly from the manufactures, because they don't benefit from my usual MO of scoring battered used examples). Realistically, this is the only tangible way I can help struggling manufacturers, but it'll be hard to decide what has to go to fund my support. The only thing I'm pretty sure about is that my collection will look significantly different on the other side of the Great Recession. Future forum topic: What Do You Have Left?

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Wed 12 Nov, 2008 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stephanie Maks




Location: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Reading list: 9 books

Posts: 67

PostPosted: Wed 12 Nov, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like the idea.

I think a squire-line knightly sword would be an excellent x-mas gift from me, to me. Big Grin

Great idea Allen!
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Jody A




Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Nov, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Uncanny timing for this post, Allen. I was thinking the same thing, particularly in light of another recent thread here about the cost of one domestic armourer's product being on the rise. It would be a shame to lose what has been gained over the past 5 to 10 years in terms of domestic production. Now, if only I can scrape together enough money for that Kingmaker ... Big Grin
QUI FALSITATE VIVIT, ANIMAM OCCIDIT. FALSUS IN ORE, CARET HONORE.
"Who lives in falsehood slays his soul, whose speech is false, his honour".
Inscription on type XII dated 1040-60 (Records, Oakeshott)
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Justin B.




Location: Riverside, CA
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Nov, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Truly, I like this idea. Not that I can better afford something like this next month than now (which frankly has nothing to do with the economy in my case--I'm already committed to helping my favourite custom hatter before the end of the year), I do have high hopes for next year, hopefully by March.

Until then, hang in there! And blame my dentist Wink
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Nov, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sounds like a great idea for anyone who can afford it and whose financial situation is stable and not overextended.

This nasty correction and recession may be over or at least in a recovery phase 12 to 18 months from now when the abuses in the system work their way out of the system or lets all get in line for the soup kitchen !

Usual these things get better when hope seems completely lost !

Ironic to see one's investments drop by half in value due to other people living beyond their means when I have never paid a cent in creditcard interest since I first got one: I use it for the convenience of not paying cash and that it defers payment for a month or two but I always pay my monthly balance in full.

O.K,. not everyone can do this but when the whole World maxes out their credit at the same time Governments can't print phoney money fast enough to solve the problem painlessly.

I guess one can hope the pain won't be fatal and the recovery comes sooner than later.

GEE ! That was depressing. Razz Laughing Out Loud But those who can keep our makers going should do so.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Nathan Gilleland





Joined: 25 Apr 2008

Posts: 199

PostPosted: Wed 12 Nov, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wonderful idea!

I'll be the lucky recipient of a Christmas gift from Albion this year, compliments of my wife and family. My wife won't tell me which sword it is, but I'm phsyched just knowing that I'm getting an Albion!

Seek Honor before Wealth,
Truth before Honor,
God Before all
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Thu 13 Nov, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

would love to do it, in the end, really doubt I can do it with the level of uncertainty surrounding my job and the job of my wife.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Addison C. de Lisle




Location: South Carolina
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Nov, 2008 9:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is an awesome idea, but I doubt that I will be able to as I am already making payments on my Sovereign, and being in college this is about all I can do.
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Edward Hitchens




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Nov, 2008 2:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I too must compliment Allen for this approach, and if those who can and are willing to do so, really should. To my knowledge, no domestic swordmaker is in danger of closing their doors for good, though it's obvious that the abysmal economy is becoming very detrimental to those makers who make swords for a living. The situation probably isn't as grim to the free-lance hobbyist makers.

There are one or two swords that I'd still love to get my hands on even though I've told many people that my sword-buying days are done (unless I see something on the Marketplace that I just can't pass up!). Lately, I've been sword-selling; my collection nowadays is only half what it was 5 years ago. But it seems like selling a sword is like selling a house!

Hopefully by next spring, I'll be able to participate in the "swordmaker bailout plan." Razz

"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Nov, 2008 2:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've done my part by moving forward with a custom commission. It won't be done for Christmas by a long shot but it should at least put some money in the maker's pocket heading into the holiday season. I anticipate it being one of the last sword purchases I make as my collection continues to be refined. It will fill a longsword desire (a Cluny interpretation) I have and leave me with a desire to do a rapier and not much more.


 Attachment: 73.92 KB
Cluny (resize).jpg


"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Allan Senefelder
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Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

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PostPosted: Thu 13 Nov, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
To my knowledge, no domestic swordmaker is in danger of closing their doors for good,


However i've watched a number of armourers fold since this got all really got rolling during summer.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Nov, 2008 5:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Edward Hitchens wrote:
To my knowledge, no domestic swordmaker is in danger of closing their doors for good


I'd wager that the big three are all in that danger and have been for quite some time.

.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Thomas Jason




Location: New Joisey
Joined: 28 Jul 2004

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PostPosted: Thu 13 Nov, 2008 5:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a Falchion from Mark Vickers, A longsword from John Lundemo and a few Bowies from Bill Bagwell coming.

I've done my part.


Laughing Out Loud
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J. Erb




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Joined: 03 Apr 2007

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu 13 Nov, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For a long while, I've been eyeing the Doge (or maybe the A&A smallsword) as the first of the few swords I'd like to buy someday, and I'd like to "do my part" to help keep these fine makers afloat. However, I'm also in college and don't have a job during the semester, so unfortunately other expenditures take priority. I'll have to see what's left in my wallet after Christmas and my December birthday. Wink

I also have to think about the fact that my interest in swords is not viewed too kindly in my home. Worried Finances aside, I'll have to do some serious persuading with the powers that be to justify plunking down $1000+ for a (potentially dangeous) sword and scabbard.

"What greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause, to use their own knowledge against them?"
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Darryl Aoki





Joined: 12 Oct 2006

Posts: 93

PostPosted: Thu 13 Nov, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Erb wrote:
For a long while, I've been eyeing the Doge (or maybe the A&A smallsword) as the first of the few swords I'd like to buy someday, and I'd like to "do my part" to help keep these fine makers afloat. However, I'm also in college and don't have a job during the semester, so unfortunately other expenditures take priority. I'll have to see what's left in my wallet after Christmas and my December birthday. Wink

I also have to think about the fact that my interest in swords is not viewed too kindly in my home. Worried Finances aside, I'll have to do some serious persuading with the powers that be to justify plunking down $1000+ for a (potentially dangeous) sword and scabbard.


For what it's worth, the Doge is bloody nice. It handles well, and is very attractive to boot.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Nov, 2008 10:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Darryl Aoki wrote:
J. Erb wrote:
For a long while, I've been eyeing the Doge (or maybe the A&A smallsword) as the first of the few swords I'd like to buy someday, and I'd like to "do my part" to help keep these fine makers afloat. However, I'm also in college and don't have a job during the semester, so unfortunately other expenditures take priority. I'll have to see what's left in my wallet after Christmas and my December birthday. Wink

I also have to think about the fact that my interest in swords is not viewed too kindly in my home. Worried Finances aside, I'll have to do some serious persuading with the powers that be to justify plunking down $1000+ for a (potentially dangeous) sword and scabbard.


For what it's worth, the Doge is bloody nice. It handles well, and is very attractive to boot.


Agreed and very different from the wide bladed earlier period swords I tend to like a lot: It feels much more like a " fencing " sword and a type not far from what Silver would have approved of in spite of it being Italian.

It's almost two different swords in one depending on using the regular grip or using a grip fingering the guard and protected by the ring guard: Standard grip it reminds me a bit of a faster handling Gaddhjalt and a very good cutter and side arm for unarmoured or lightly armoured combat. With the fingering hold thrusts a bit like a rapier but less effective being less pointy than a rapier. On the other hand the blade is stiff enough to be very lethal in the thrust if no armour has to be defeated: Even a Buff Coat might be good protection against it ? ( Not sure about that thought, just a guess in the absence of some tests. Wink )

I think Albion has a payment plan for those who can't pay for it all at once. Wink

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Felix R.




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PostPosted: Fri 14 Nov, 2008 5:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey folks, in my opionion it is not just support in holiday season. It would be better to support our beloved arms and armour makers on a regular basis.

But I know what this topic is really about, you just want a justification to commission some new again this year although the belly is already fed up.

I did my share this year already. Got a scabbard, got a breast plate and faulds. Commissioned legs and an Aketon.
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Dan P




Location: Massachusetts, USA
Joined: 28 Jun 2007

Posts: 208

PostPosted: Fri 14 Nov, 2008 7:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a dagger from Darkwood Armory arriving hopefully in a few weeks. After that I think I am going to be out of the "swords and weapons" thing for a while, probably a year or so... have to save up to go back to school and all that. Hopefully there will still be some good custom makers around in a few years once I get the penny jar full enough to buy something nice.
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Mike Capanelli




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PostPosted: Fri 14 Nov, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I did my part for sure. I ordered a Squire and Munich right before the price increase, Ordered a Soldat during the sale, And have a Knightly Pole axe and Duke of Urbino waiting for me to pay off at A&A.
Winter is coming
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