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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 16 Aug, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: A funky visor         Reply with quote

Here's a closed burgonet with a funky visor from the Landzeughaus, Graz. Has anyone seen anything like this before?

The folded down occularia is odd, and there and two sets.



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funky visor.jpg


Happy

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Jonathan Atkin





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PostPosted: Sat 16 Aug, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think his oppents were very scared while looking at his helmet lol but seriously thats odd/cool
"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness''. - Theodore Roosevelt
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Bill Sahigan





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PostPosted: Sat 16 Aug, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hm.. what were the top slits for? ventilation?
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Aug, 2008 12:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Much in common with the " Death-Head " helms of the mid 17 Th. Century: Very crude in general but this one seems to have been made by someone with low skills and zero aesthetic sense for a very cheap munitions type armour !?

An original visor or a 19 Th. Century replacement visor !? Don't really know how probable this is but it does seem to be a low point in the armourer's art if truly period. Eek!

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Ben C.





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PostPosted: Sun 17 Aug, 2008 1:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Personally I like the aesthetics on this helm a lot more than many other burgonets. The helm has this child-like serial killer type look combined with a feeling that the guy who would have worn it cared more about cold functionality/killing you than about trying to look pretty on the battlefield Big Grin The crudeness of the piece only adds to the overall creepiness of it but I would have to agree with Jean that it appears to be some type of munitions grade savoyard style burgonet. Is there any date for the piece?
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Bram Verbeek





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PostPosted: Sun 17 Aug, 2008 1:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When new, the sun might have reflected directly into the wearer's eyes from those metal flaps underneath, if they had been above the eyes, it might have been better
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Helge B.





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PostPosted: Sun 17 Aug, 2008 5:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would say it looks like if the upper slits were somewhat a first try which were placed too high. And then the maker corrected this by putting another set of eyeslits below. Seems it was makeshift repair done by a smith who is more used to make horsehoes than armour parts.
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Grayson C.




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Aug, 2008 8:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not sure those slits were a first attempt. Look at the cut out - on the ouside it is very straight and angular with sharp corners, yet the steel flap is rounded. Wouldn't this mean that some care had to be given to them in order to remove steel for this?
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Aug, 2008 10:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Helge B. wrote:
I would say it looks like if the upper slits were somewhat a first try which were placed too high. And then the maker corrected this by putting another set of eyeslits below. Seems it was makeshift repair done by a smith who is more used to make horsehoes than armour parts.


Leaving the lower " lids " still there does have some use in blocking a sword thrust from below but may also blocks one's view. Confused Question

Yes, I can see where the " crudeness " does have a certain creepy charm to it ! Might be a fast repair " quick and dirty " and with function only being an issue.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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R D Moore




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Aug, 2008 1:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This visor brings thoughts of a "battlefield" repair to my mind, too. The plate being shaped and fit to the helm, the rounded corners on the inside of the top slits show some skill. It just looks like a job completed in the shortest amount of time to me.
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Sam Gordon Campbell




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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2009 3:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Reminds me of a Cyberman from Dr. Who! Big Grin
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M. Oroszlany




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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2009 5:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Whoa, funky is indeed the perfect word for this.

I tend to agree with the thought of this being a quick replacement for the broken original, as what is seen from the rest of the armor looks decent. The dents in the top of the helmet would also suggest that it have seen some action.
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Sam Barris




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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2009 5:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam Gordon Campbell wrote:
Reminds me of a Cyberman from Dr. Who! Big Grin

You beat me to it!

Delete! DELETE! Wink

Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Chris Arrington





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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2009 6:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This Helm was discussed on ArmorArchive a while back. You might look up that thread.

I think the funniest thing I saw was the statement....

"How did that SCA helm get in a museum !" Wink
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Andreas Auer




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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2009 8:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

looks like it didn't got finished....my 2 cent...

L.

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to keep that pointy end thingy away from you...
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James R.Fox




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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sirs-I agree-it looks like a quick and dirty battlefield replacement. I ca just hear the owner of the armour "!@$%^ Varlet! Wait 'till I get you home! Big Grin
Ja68ms
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Gabriele A. Pini




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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

can't this be a modern (18-19-20th century) damage? I have see a similar (if inverted) damage done to manuscript of the 1300 from a noob who thinked that the holes (from the vellum of the lamb, witness of the true origin of the manuscript) were to be repaired with tape...
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom




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PostPosted: Thu 22 Jan, 2009 1:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Helge B. wrote:
I would say it looks like if the upper slits were somewhat a first try which were placed too high. And then the maker corrected this by putting another set of eyeslits below. Seems it was makeshift repair done by a smith who is more used to make horsehoes than armour parts.


Leaving the lower " lids " still there does have some use in blocking a sword thrust from below but may also blocks one's view. Confused Question

Yes, I can see where the " crudeness " does have a certain creepy charm to it ! Might be a fast repair " quick and dirty " and with function only being an issue.

I remember from a Swedish TV program called "Swedish war",
they test shoot on a copy of a breastplate and skipped the top last angle of it and shoot
they found out that that last angle would have stop all splinters from the lead bullet so would the dummy's face still be whole,
maybe it can be something like that to with those flap's, if it is from 17Th Century.

Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Jan, 2009 1:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can accept the functionality of the ocular, to use in battle a joust helm, but why the mouth? A hole like this is an invite: "please, punch an arrow/stiletto/lance through my teeth!". If you have to breath some small holes in the sides are better.

And if this is theatrical modify? Someone thinked to use an old armor in some play, but evidentely you couldn't act behind a complete helm and hope to be heared by the spectators...
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Bruno Giordan





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PostPosted: Thu 22 Jan, 2009 3:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Helge B. wrote:
I would say it looks like if the upper slits were somewhat a first try which were placed too high. And then the maker corrected this by putting another set of eyeslits below. Seems it was makeshift repair done by a smith who is more used to make horsehoes than armour parts.


Leaving the lower " lids " still there does have some use in blocking a sword thrust from below but may also blocks one's view. Confused Question

Yes, I can see where the " crudeness " does have a certain creepy charm to it ! Might be a fast repair " quick and dirty " and with function only being an issue.

I remember from a Swedish TV program called "Swedish war",
they test shoot on a copy of a breastplate and skipped the top last angle of it and shoot
they found out that that last angle would have stop all splinters from the lead bullet so would the dummy's face still be whole,
maybe it can be something like that to with those flap's, if it is from 17Th Century.


I think this is teh best explanation, a test piece.

Not anything improvised as it is burnished correctly.
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