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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 8:26 am    Post subject: My newest old sword!         Reply with quote

Its an English Model 1786 Spadroon or otherwise known as an Epee' Anglaise. Lovely.


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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another Shot.


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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Excellent! I was watching this auction. When do you expect it?

Jonathan

(You've had quite a run of collecting recently! Happy )
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 8:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ive got to pay for it and the 1818 Nathan Starr Sabre. So probably next week. I've been trying to contact someone I traded a 1848 Bohemian light cavalry saber to, in hopes of maybe buying it back. I guess when I started collecting or aqquiring, I was very much interested in modern reproductions of period swords and swords that I could fight with. And while I still fence, its not my burning priority. I have of late reflected on the very nice antique swords that I have let slip thru my fingers in the past (like my 1796 pristine heavy cavalry dress sword and scabbard sob, and my 1840 U.S. artillery sabre and scabbard) and decided to reinvest. I like holding a piece of history in my hand. Of course in the 80's and 90s you could get just about anything for up to 300 bucks. Its amazing to me how the prices have skyrocketed.
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Allen Andrews




Location: Maine USA
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 305

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was watching this too Happy Congratulations!
" I would not snare even an orc with a falsehood. "

Faramir son of Denethor

Words to live by. (Yes, I know he's not a real person)
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 9:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanx, I was suprised that I got it. I only bid 20 more dollars and then left work. Whodathunkit? Also here are some pics of my Nathan Starr saber.


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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,814

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like spadroons quite a bit and have adopted three to date. This one of yours has a hilt element I have seen on some other swords. One reference book lists a Thurkle example that displays it but I have been advised it is not unique to his efforts. The first example here was a sword listed at Shilo Relics a couple of years ago and the second is currently listed on the Gunbroker site. Quite a few decades seperate these two, so it's interesting to me that the diamond element spanned so much time.

Cheers

GC



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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Awsome pics, Thanks. I believe I have run across Spadroon technique treatsie's before. I think I will see if I can find them on line again.
inkothemgard!
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,814

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are my trio. I don''t have a group photo so these are a combination of dealer photos and my effort. The eagle pommel is of a different form than the Ketland typology but reflects the same time period. The slotted hilt is a bit of a mystery. I get varied opinions on it ranging from the 1770s right up to the War of 1812. My French Epee d'Anglais was the last in here and possibly the oldest of the bunch.

Cheers

GC



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Hugh Fuller




Location: Virginia
Joined: 01 Oct 2003

Posts: 256

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Is the blade on that 1786 Spadroon as long as it looks in the picture? Eek! It seems to stretch from here to there and back again. If it is that ong, it must have been for a truly tall man.
Hugh
Still trying to walk in the Light
Please see 1 John 1:5
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a bit of Spadroon Drill!


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inkothemgard!
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D Critchley




Location: UK
Joined: 24 Jan 2007

Posts: 85

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The 1786 blade pattern (it's not a full sword pattern, the hilt was still up to th regiment at that point), should be about 32" long, but they vary by an inch or two.

Nice sword Morgan, If it had been a UK sale you'd have had a fight on your hands Big Grin

Two more spadroons of a similar design.
The first I'm very proud of, it was covered in crap when I bought it, when I cleaned off all the old varnish I found it had preserved almost all the original 200 year old polish to the blade. Same diamond insert as your's but in steel.



More standard Brass and ivory example, no insert in the side bar

David C

"The purpose of the cavalry on the battlefield is to give tone to an event that otherwise might be considered a common brawl"
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,814

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The eagle is about a thirty inch blade, the other two thirty-one. It is the photographic perspective. the French sword has a longer ricasso and substantially narrower blade. That one is 3/8" thick at the hilt, tapers rapidly over the first four inches and then has a more linear distal tape to the tip which is only 1/16" thick. the British Spadroons are typically thicker through the tip and wider for the length of the blade. With the American NCO swords and Prussian court and grenedier swords, we see the narrower blade as well but they are not as delicate or rapidly profile tapering as this French piece whose fuller is only half the blade length.

Cheers

GC
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

D Critchley wrote:
The 1786 blade pattern (it's not a full sword pattern, the hilt was still up to th regiment at that point), should be about 32" long, but they vary by an inch or two.

Nice sword Morgan, If it had been a UK sale you'd have had a fight on your hands Big Grin

Two more spadroons of a similar design.
The first I'm very proud of, it was covered in crap when I bought it, when I cleaned off all the old varnish I found it had preserved almost all the original 200 year old polish to the blade. Same diamond insert as your's but in steel.



More standard Brass and ivory example, no insert in the side bar


I really like the steel hilted Spadroon! I'm glad I didnt have the extra competition, I was utterly suprised to have won it!

inkothemgard!
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 4:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glen's eagle headed spadroon is lovely. Is it my imagination or does that have a shorter blade than is usual?
inkothemgard!
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,814

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know it is a little shorter than the others. let me actually measure them. 32 1/4" for the slotted hilt and 31 1/2". for the eagle. The French sword is 32 3/4".

I know the eagle has not been shortened, as the point is fairly pristine.

Cheers

GC
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Anders Backlund




Location: Sweden
Joined: 24 Oct 2007

Posts: 629

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've been on-off interested in the spadroon ever since I found out what it was. It's one of those swords I'm really curious about how they were used.
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.

"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Doug Lester




Location: Decatur, IL
Joined: 12 Dec 2007

Posts: 167

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cut it out guys, you're making me drool. Eek!
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 8:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh, hey! Are we posting pic of spadroons? Well, I don't mind if I do!

But before we get to that, I know you are thinking, "Hey, I have seen these terms '1786 Pattern' and '1796 Pattern' thrown around. What's the difference?" Thanks to D Critchley, here is your answer: 1786 and 1796 Infantry Swords. Big Grin

British Pattern 1796 Infantry Officer's Sword:

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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I recently read that the Spadroon was popular for a time in the british army but fell out of faver due to many complaints from british officers for its "Gross inefficiancy during the Penninsular War." Also I have read in two different texts that the spadroon should be considered the precursor to the german fencing sabre. Anyone have anythng to add to that one way or the other?
inkothemgard!
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