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Rodolfo Martínez




Location: Argentina
Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 347

PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Munich sword and knights.         Reply with quote

Hello guys!
I was reading that Munich Sword´s essay and i remembered some Durer´s woodcuts showing angels with that type of sword.
But, a friend showed me some woodcuts with mounted men-at-arms (One was an XV century one) wielding that type of sword, and now i can´t contact him. (I think it is Type XVII)
Do you know if Durer did any woodcut showing XVI century knights/ men-at-arms with that type of swords?

(I dug out that he made at least one of the german knight with the Gothic armour, and many mercenaries and angels)

If it wasn´t Durer, Do you know of any other artist who made woodcuts, showing XVI century men-at-arms (Gendarmes) armed with that type of blade or similar weapon?

Thanks.

¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Munich sword and knights.         Reply with quote

Rodolfo Martínez wrote:
Hello guys!
I was reading that Munich Sword´s essay and i remembered some Durer´s woodcuts showing angels with that type of sword.
But, a friend showed me some woodcuts with mounted men-at-arms (One was an XV century one) wielding that type of sword, and now i can´t contact him. (I think it is Type XVII)
Do you know if Durer did any woodcut showing XVI century knights/ men-at-arms with that type of swords?

(I dug out that he made at least one of the german knight with the Gothic armour, and many mercenaries and angels)

If it wasn´t Durer, Do you know of any other artist who made woodcuts, showing XVI century men-at-arms (Gendarmes) armed with that type of blade or similar weapon?

Thanks.


Rodolfo,

Are you wondering about Type XVII swords or Type XVIII (b) swords? In your post, you initially start talking about the Munich, but then you mention XVIIs, like the Sempach and Landgraf.

I do know that there is a book in German that specifically covers Duerer's works with weapons, armour, knights and the like. They had a copy of it in the Deutsches Historisches museum in late December 2006 when I was there. It might be worth tracking down. Oddly though, the book has no illustrations from Duerer's fechtbuch, although that's a bit tangential to the subject of this thread.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you're thinking about Type XVIIIb swords, the best known illustration is Duerer's "Death, Knight and Devil"

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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another example of several swords, probably XVIIIb, is from the Apocalypse of St John, depicting the four winds:


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Rodolfo Martínez




Location: Argentina
Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 347

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello guys.
I wasn´t refering to the Death and the knight, but it is a wonderful woodcut too. I was refering to a very similar one with the knight alone, just give me some time and i will post it for you.
There are other images of angels with othe cool blades, like messers. (Its weird that Durer didn´t draw a Saint Michael armored)

Craig, i was refering to the Munich, i can´t remember its type, but i know that Oakeshott gave those swords two clasifications if i´m not wrong. Can you remember the book´s name?

My friend´s knight was something like this one posted here, but with his sword in belt, with the Max armour and all the stuff like the bases skirt and hotse armour, but i can´t remember if it was truly Durer the author of that woodcut, or other artist. If you manage to guess please tell me.
Sorry for the ambiguous info.

¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Rodolfo Martínez




Location: Argentina
Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 347

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello again, i guess the guy that made the woodcut was Hans Burgkmair, i´m not sure, there is a woodcut in the triumps of Maximilian of a knight with a flag but i don´t know if it was that woodcut, since the image i saw a few moments ago was very small.
¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Greg Coffman




Location: Lubbock, TX
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 254

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is this picture from the ARMA webpage:

http://thearma.org/arttalk/at77.htm

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
-Hebrews 4:12
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Rodolfo Martínez




Location: Argentina
Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 347

PostPosted: Tue 12 Feb, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello, sorry for the time out, i just couldn´t scan the knight, i´ll try to find it again... Worried
The knight i was talking about previously, was the one posted by Greg. Do you know who made that woodcut?

Thamks.

¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Tue 12 Feb, 2008 5:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hans Leonhard Schäufelein (contained in a large book called Theuerdank, dated copies surviving from 1517-1519), died sometime around 1540. Another good reason why the sword form is considered plausible in late 15th to early 16th century, as opposed to a later development.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Feb, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Munich sword and knights.         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:


I do know that there is a book in German that specifically covers Duerer's works with weapons, armour, knights and the like.


Amazon has it for the low, low price of $170 USD

http://www.amazon.com/Albrecht-D%C3%BCrer-Waf...amp;sr=1-1

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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