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Etienne Hamel




Location: Granby (QC) canada
Joined: 09 Sep 2006

Posts: 428

PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec, 2007 6:30 am    Post subject: possible modification on my lee enfield+ questions         Reply with quote

ok here it is imagine that you are in a civilian war and you have nothing but a restored rifle from the ww1 or ww2 with a small box magazine of 10 rounds and you wish to have more in your magazine to survive to this, is it possible according to you to have a drum magazine like the famous chicago typewriter or a drum magazine that is made like the infinite sign and a great scope for accurate aiming one more time is it possible to make these modification on this little beauty?

and if somone can try to make a drawing of this i could be grateful

here's a link for the '' infinite sign magazine'' (but the site is for bb guns) : http://store.matrixbb.com/servlet/-strse-2531...und/Detail
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Joel Minturn





Joined: 10 Dec 2007

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec, 2007 8:34 am    Post subject: Possible but why?         Reply with quote

It should be possible to do, but the why? Ok I understand why, having a bigger mag is always cool, but we're talking about a SMLE. Sure the Lee-Enfield action is considered one of the quickest bolt actions out there but it is still a bolt action rifle.

First off large cap mags are heavy, thats a lot of steel, copper and lead thats hanging from under your rifle. It will throw off the balance of the rifle making harder to follow your target.

Second: Designing mags is difficult and the .303 Brit, being a rimmed case with sloped walls, is especially difficult. And in this case an improper mag design could interfere with operating the bolt. An off the wall thought but would a 30 mag from a Bren gun be able to be modified to work?

Third: Ten rounds in a bolt gun is quite a bit. Large cap mags are designed for automatic weapons where your pull the trigger and the rounds fly. bolt guns are better suited for picking your target first and making each shot mean something. Not saying that with a little practice bolt guns aren't fast its just not there strong suite.

So your best bet would be to get a good scope, thinking something like 2-9x40mm - buy the best quality you can afford, but the open sites are good too and lots of spare mags. Your money would be better spent on a good scope than a big mag.
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: possible modification on my lee enfield+ questions         Reply with quote

Etienne Hamel wrote:
ok here it is imagine that you are in a civilian war and you have nothing but a restored rifle from the ww1 or ww2 with a small box magazine of 10 rounds and you wish to have more in your magazine to survive to this, is it possible according to you to have a drum magazine like the famous chicago typewriter or a drum magazine that is made like the infinite sign and a great scope for accurate aiming one more time is it possible to make these modification on this little beauty?

and if somone can try to make a drawing of this i could be grateful

here's a link for the '' infinite sign magazine'' (but the site is for bb guns) : http://store.matrixbb.com/servlet/-strse-2531...und/Detail


There is no source for this type of magazine for any model Lee Enfield. Bolt action rifles are unsuitable for this type of thing and it is unnecessary any way. The 10 round box magazine supplied with Enfield bolt action rifles had larger capacity than nearly all other military bolt action rifles of its day. As pointed out, the .303 cartridge is rimmed and tapered, making it somewhat fussy to feed through a large magazine. The Bren was the exception to this rule and it was confined to a 30 round capacity during WWII and since then. I doubt the Bren magazine can be adapted to the Lee Enfield, although they have been used in the L1-A1, which is a semi-auto. Also, keep in mind that the .303 cartridge is heavy and that trying to boost the magazine capacity will add weight to a weapon that should be portable. SAWS used today are chambered for smaller cartidges such as the 5.56 X 45mm round so that they can be carried and used by one soldier rather than having to be served by two or more (crew served).

The Lee enfield loads from five round stripper clips. The magazine is detachable and one could carry some spare, loaded magazines but during the time that the rifle was a primary military small arm loading from stripper clips continued to be the norm. A well-trained and experienced soldier can reload from stripper clips very quickly. During WWI, the BEF troops in Belgium were able to fire and reload with such speed that the Germans thought they were facing automatic weapons fire.

In the case of your rifle, invest in a good scope and leave the magazine alone. And, as I have said so many times, get the rifle checked by a competent gunsmith before shooting it.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982


Last edited by Lin Robinson on Mon 10 Dec, 2007 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Etienne Hamel




Location: Granby (QC) canada
Joined: 09 Sep 2006

Posts: 428

PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For the gunsmith it is not a problem, i will take a look for it. second i found a red dot scope (it is small, look like high tech scope and you can aim with or without the eyes in the scope) third i saw something on the internet last week it is a recoil reducer and a muzzle brake but i dont know if it is good.

for the muzzle brake here's the link: http://www.armurier-quebec.com/indexgb.html
recoil reducer: http://www.rodscustomstocks.com/Recoil_Reducers.htm

But for the recoil reducer i would like to find one in quebec (canada) if possible...
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Etienne Hamel wrote:
For the gunsmith it is not a problem, i will take a look for it. second i found a red dot scope (it is small, look like high tech scope and you can aim with or without the eyes in the scope) third i saw something on the internet last week it is a recoil reducer and a muzzle brake but i dont know if it is good.

for the muzzle brake here's the link: http://www.armurier-quebec.com/indexgb.html
recoil reducer: http://www.rodscustomstocks.com/Recoil_Reducers.htm

But for the recoil reducer i would like to find one in quebec (canada) if possible...


I would get a good 4 or 6 power scope in lieu of the red dot scope for your Enfield. Red dot scopes are more suited for AR-15s and the like where quick target acquisition is of major importance.

You do not need either the muzzle brake or the recoil reducer for this rifle. Take the money you would spend on those and apply to the scope purchase, rings, bases and having it mounted.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Steven McIntyre




Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada
Joined: 03 Sep 2006

Posts: 44

PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

FYI it is illegal in Canada to have a rifle with a capacity more than 5 rounds, except for certain rifles like the enfield and garand with were designed for more.

I suggest you visit this site, and read up before you decide to make any modifications: http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/

~PER ARDUA~
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John Cooksey




Location: NW Ark
Joined: 15 Nov 2003

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Heh. 10 rounds seems like a lot to me, for a bolt-action rifle and the way in which it is meant to be used. The great thing about the SMLE is that the magazine doesn't stick out below the trigger guard, enabling very comfortable/efficient fire from the prone position. The magazine is also easily removable, allowing one to readily remove it in order to clear the action in case of a stuck round or "jam" (which is not possibly with the fixed floorplates of the Springfield US 1903 and 03A3).

If one really desires to modify a bolt action in this way, it is possible to fit M-14 20-round magazines to the Remington Model 700 bolt action, via a floorplate replacement kit.

I also seem to remember a number of inter-war Mauser 98 carbine variations that had extended 20-round magazines fitted to them, rather than the standard 5 round integral magazine.

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec, 2007 9:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steven McIntyre wrote:
FYI it is illegal in Canada to have a rifle with a capacity more than 5 rounds, except for certain rifles like the enfield and garand with were designed for more.

I suggest you visit this site, and read up before you decide to make any modifications: http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/


Yes true for centerfire semi-autos, bolt actions have no limits but then more than the 10 in the Enfield would have little practical use and have a lot of negatives.

If your Enfield is close to original don't mess with it: It's a classic !

Sporterized would have a highly modified stock instead of the military issue type stock: If it's already lost it's collectors value then modifications wont do any harm to it's value. ( depends what you mean by sporterized ).

Also, just check all laws before getting " creative " with modifications: Some could be illegal while others are just a bad ideas.

I would keep this one as close to original as possible and just concentrate on what would make it a better target or hunting gun.

Oh, and play safe and always respect the gun as if it was always loaded, get safety training if you don't already have it and get your permits for possession to stay legal and continue to enjoy shooting and collecting longterm ( easier if you wait until you are 18 I think, in the mean time the official owner of the rifle should be your parents or another licensed adult who can officially transfer possession to you later ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Etienne Hamel




Location: Granby (QC) canada
Joined: 09 Sep 2006

Posts: 428

PostPosted: Tue 11 Dec, 2007 6:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If i take a look on my lee enfield and a picture of the original, the stock is still the same but i think the rest of the wood has been changed but i don't know if it is the original that has been cut to be sporterized...and i think i will try to restore it to it's military form (with the right scope it could be cool ) and for the scope do anyone of you who have a nice picture of it because i don't understand the numbers... Sad
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Tue 11 Dec, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Etienne Hamel wrote:
If i take a look on my lee enfield and a picture of the original, the stock is still the same but i think the rest of the wood has been changed but i don't know if it is the original that has been cut to be sporterized...and i think i will try to restore it to it's military form (with the right scope it could be cool ) and for the scope do anyone of you who have a nice picture of it because i don't understand the numbers... Sad


From your description it sounds like someone has attempted to sporterize the rifle by shortening and lightening the forend of the stock. This was common. If you want to restore it to its original military appearance you should be able to find stock parts or a complete stock by browsing the internet. The Gun Parts Corporation is a good place to start.

Good scopes are available from Cableas, Bass Pro Shops, The Sportsman's Guide and numerous other online suppliers. You will see the pictures on their sites. You will want a four to six power scope for that rifle, with a 40mm objective (that's the size of the lens at the front in of the scope). You will probably have to buy the rings and bases for the scope separately or, since you will need a gunsmith to drill and tap the receiver for the bases, you can let him/her supply them. I would not spend over $150 for the optics, plus the gunsmith's fee. That is more than enough to put into a rifle that is probably worth little more than that without the scope.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Dec, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This Australian fellow has a number of Lee-Enfield rifle videos over at YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Jollygreenslugg

Good visual introduction to models, usage, quirks, etc.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Etienne Hamel




Location: Granby (QC) canada
Joined: 09 Sep 2006

Posts: 428

PostPosted: Tue 11 Dec, 2007 4:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lin is it ok to just make the forend of the stock by a gunsmith to just make things easier for me because i have one near my house but for now i dont have any money for my rifle...and for the nosecap of the rifle it is ok to just make it by a gunsmith too?
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Tue 11 Dec, 2007 6:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Etienne Hamel wrote:
Lin is it ok to just make the forend of the stock by a gunsmith to just make things easier for me because i have one near my house but for now i dont have any money for my rifle...and for the nosecap of the rifle it is ok to just make it by a gunsmith too?


That will cost more than buying a surplus stock and putting it on yourself. If the gun has been sporterized I am sure that there are a lot of metal parts missing as well, but they can be found. If the gun is functional as it is I would leave it alone for now and shoot it the way it is. You can always restore it later.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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John Cooksey




Location: NW Ark
Joined: 15 Nov 2003

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Wed 12 Dec, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You know what you could do, since the rifle has already been "sporterized"?

You could turn it into a Scout rifle, or a pseudo-Scout, a la Jeff Cooper's baby.
I have seen several scouts based off the SMLE, and they were neat rifles.

Nice 10-round magazine, flush with the trigger-guard, decent iron sights built in, add a forward "scout mount" and an extended eye relief scope, and you'd be good for anything from wildebeest to griz to hordes of invading ChiComs. :-)

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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B. Stark
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Dec, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I own a '43 SMLE from the Lithgow armory works. It's essentially mint. Like was mentioned above there is no need for a recoil compensator or a muzzle break of any kind. The weight of the rifle is more than enough, I shoot mine regularly with the original brass butt plate. One of the most forgiving rifles ever made. Also one of the classiest rifles ever. Why change it into a hybridized monstrousity? Well to each his own I guess. In addition, the SMLE was the highest capacity battle rifle from it's inception to about 1945-47. Even the vaunted Garand only packed 8 rounds and it was semi auto (another amazing weapon). It wasn't until the Stg-44 that the idea of a rifle caliber weapon have more than 10 rounds (though I'd never consider it a MBR). So the idea of a barrel clip is well...absurd. no offence of course.
Here's mine:



 Attachment: 64.43 KB
S.M.L.E. pic1b.JPG


"Wyrd bi∂ ful aręd"

Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense?

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Nick Trueman





Joined: 27 Mar 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 12 Dec, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey

Just buy a SLR! That will do the trick!
Trained commonwealth soldiers from the 1st WW could fire up to 40 rnds per minute.
Im not a soldier, and not trained, and I can do about 35 a minute.
Do that with a Mauser Big Grin

I dont see the use, leave these babies alone! One day, maybe not in our lifetime, there wont be many left.

Would you cut up a Brown Bess, to make a short, single shot shooter?

Nick
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Nick Trueman





Joined: 27 Mar 2006

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PostPosted: Thu 13 Dec, 2007 4:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi

I have to show you this baby! I cant help it.

SSA No1 MkIII* 1917.

I swear this rifle has never been used. All matching numbers.

Cheers

Nick



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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Thu 13 Dec, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nick Trueman wrote:
Hey

Just buy a SLR! That will do the trick!
Trained commonwealth soldiers from the 1st WW could fire up to 40 rnds per minute.
Im not a soldier, and not trained, and I can do about 35 a minute.
Do that with a Mauser Big Grin

I dont see the use, leave these babies alone! One day, maybe not in our lifetime, there wont be many left.

Would you cut up a Brown Bess, to make a short, single shot shooter?

Nick


So you can load seven stripper clips of ammo and fire it all in one minute! Or, do you mean you are starting with a loaded ten round magazine, then reloading? Or, are you starting with an empty rifle? And, you are talking about an Enfield, not a Mauser? Just want to be sure I understand what you are saying.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Nick Trueman





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PostPosted: Thu 13 Dec, 2007 9:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

HI

Well as far as I know, no commonwealth troops used Mausers Big Grin . Um the SMLE was the stock standard issue to most allies. Canada and the USA being a exception with the Ross rifle and Mod 17.

Yes the mad minute, as it was called is the amount off rnds shot within a minute. I can do 35 from a unloaded SMLE.
Mind you accuracy is not the objective, the objective is to fire as many rnds as you can into a formation of enemy soldiers.

With stripper clips of 5 rnds each, and a magazine holding 10 rnds, 35 rnds is not hard to do. There is a trick though, you must not take the rifle from your shoulder, manipulate the bolt as per usual, and fire with your ring finger whilst not letting go of the bolt. This allows for rapid fire. And aim isnt to bad really.

Hope that clears that up,

Thanks

N
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Fri 14 Dec, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nick Trueman wrote:
HI

Well as far as I know, no commonwealth troops used Mausers Big Grin . Um the SMLE was the stock standard issue to most allies. Canada and the USA being a exception with the Ross rifle and Mod 17.

Yes the mad minute, as it was called is the amount off rnds shot within a minute. I can do 35 from a unloaded SMLE.
Mind you accuracy is not the objective, the objective is to fire as many rnds as you can into a formation of enemy soldiers.

With stripper clips of 5 rnds each, and a magazine holding 10 rnds, 35 rnds is not hard to do. There is a trick though, you must not take the rifle from your shoulder, manipulate the bolt as per usual, and fire with your ring finger whilst not letting go of the bolt. This allows for rapid fire. And aim isnt to bad really.

Hope that clears that up,

Thanks

N


I am aware that the Brits did not use Mausers. However, in your post you alluded to Mausers without an explanation.

I also understand the concept of the "mad minute", which survived into the Vietnam era. I just have to admit that getting off that many rounds using a bolt action with stripper clips is quite a feat.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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