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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec, 2007 6:08 am    Post subject: Heavy late gothic war-hammer         Reply with quote

Recently finished late gothic war-hammer, based on/a variant of the italian warhammer from 1480 recently on Hermann Historica, Lot Nr.2191.
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/images51_gr/52012_c.jpg
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/images51_gr/52012.jpg

Length 62cm.
Weight ca 1kg, (althou when my scale get fixed in a few days i will know for sure.)

This item currently has no owner, so if you are interested i can be reached at allmoge@gmail.com or PM. 475€uros (+ shipping).
Once again im sorry for the poor picture-quality, i might have the worst digi-cam out there..;/



http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p19/De-Pro...mmare2.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p19/De-Pro...mmare3.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p19/De-Pro...mmare4.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p19/De-Pro...mmare5.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p19/De-Pro...mmare6.jpg

Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,

I am curious about the deep split between the prongs of the hammer head. Could you tell us a little more about them? (Such as there effect on use, commonality, extant examples etc.)

Thanks,
Steven

P.S. You keep making really nifty looking stuff.

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Bram Verbeek





Joined: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 217

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could also make a nice picture of the top, the twisted iron there together with the line of the hammer and "spike" should make for a very nice view
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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steven H wrote:
Hello,

I am curious about the deep split between the prongs of the hammer head. Could you tell us a little more about them? (Such as there effect on use, commonality, extant examples etc.)

Thanks,
Steven

P.S. You keep making really nifty looking stuff.


Well i wish i had more examples of these types of prongs to point to, but one reason for me picking this one to reproduce was that it had so many unusual features, such as the prongs and the decorated top of the langettes. As you know usually there are pointed prongs or a solid head on a warhammer or pollax, but this head is somewhat of a "mix". The area of percussion on this one is not a flat surface, as one might think on first glance, but four small points made up of the inner corners of each quadrangular prong, giving it a very centered hit-area with some sharpness. Right after construction was completed the hammer and spike was tested on 1,5mm sheet metal, this sheetmetal was ofcourse not the equivalent of hardened and shaped armour but the test was done just to get a feel for the mechanics of the weapon (deep dents and wide holes where made with little effort).

Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Danny Grigg




PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec, 2007 9:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a pic of a similar looking warhammer. Not sure which website I found this on.

Enjoy

Danny
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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

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PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec, 2007 3:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Splendid find. That to me its not similar but an exact same head. The langettes are missing and the rivets but it looks identical.
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec, 2007 4:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

W. Schütz wrote:
Splendid find. That to me its not similar but an exact same head. The langettes are missing and the rivets but it looks identical.


Could there also be be a missing top spike/dag ?

Very nice work by the way. Big Grin Cool

The design might be mainly decorative but I wonder if the separate parts of the head flex in a way that spread the four impacting surface very subtlety on impact ? This might help to give the head a " grabby " purchase on plate or dissipate some vibrations and shock to the striking hand ?

Tests hitting plate with this one versus a hammer with flat armour face might give some idea of the advantages or lack of advantages ?

Oh, another thought: When striking fluted armour the splits between the hammer face sections might stick better as ridges in the armour would be straddled in between the sections.

Oh, pics of damage to plate would be interesting to see, and since you says that deep dents and wide holes were made with little effort you might try using thicker plate targets to see at what point in thickness this starts to be difficult to do ?

On the other hand I don't think you would want to push this to the level of destructive testing with this one.
Maybe making a quick test version of this type of warhammer could be used in more abusive tests ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec, 2007 6:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
W. Schütz wrote:
Splendid find. That to me its not similar but an exact same head. The langettes are missing and the rivets but it looks identical.


Could there also be be a missing top spike/dag ?

Very nice work by the way. :D :cool:

The design might be mainly decorative but I wonder if the separate parts of the head flex in a way that spread the four impacting surface very subtlety on impact ? This might help to give the head a " grabby " purchase on plate or dissipate some vibrations and shock to the striking hand ?

Tests hitting plate with this one versus a hammer with flat armour face might give some idea of the advantages or lack of advantages ?

Oh, another thought: When striking fluted armour the splits between the hammer face sections might stick better as ridges in the armour would be straddled in between the sections.

Oh, pics of damage to plate would be interesting to see, and since you says that deep dents and wide holes were made with little effort you might try using thicker plate targets to see at what point in thickness this starts to be difficult to do ?

On the other hand I don't think you would want to push this to the level of destructive testing with this one.
Maybe making a quick test version of this type of warhammer could be used in more abusive tests ?


You have some very interesting points there. I think it is possible the slimmest part of the prongs, where the round depression is, will flex on impact giving it a less "bouncy" hit. I find that seldom is a design onlydecorative.. I would be very interested to know the structure of the steel of the original, the carbon content and most of all how its hardened. I gave both the hammer and spike a differential hardening, soft body and hard hit area. And mine is made from 1060 tool-steel.
A wide four-point hit area will have many functions im sure, altho i wish i could spend as much time on empirical tests and documentation as i must on construction. I will let whoever purchases this one in the future do the tests..;/

Yes i am sure the top spike and both side rivets are missing, thats what i ment by "missing rivets" since the topspike also functions like a rivet to secure the head if my estimation of its construction is correct.
On the topic of rivets; both originals have their shafts replaced, and i would be very interested to know for sure if the langette-rivets on the H.H-ex are original.

Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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