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Anders Nilsson




Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 5:58 am    Post subject: Nylon wasters         Reply with quote

I´m going to buy me an Nylonwaster. They seem to be quite good to use in sparring. Whats your experience from sparring with nylonwasters, and wich company produces the best ones.

I have found some links. please share if you have others.

http://www.ferruza.com/nylon/en/index.html
http://www.freewebs.com/wiwasters/
http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/blhunt/sales.htm
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Michael Olsen





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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 7:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've used the With Intent wasters on a number of occasions and really enjoyed them. I found them superior to wood in virtually every way, except for historical accuracy of appearance and material. I will be buying one within the next couple of months, and recommend them heartily.

I have no experience with the other companies.

Michael Olsen
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Randall Pleasant




Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Joined: 24 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Nylon wasters         Reply with quote

Anders

I have used the plastic wasters by With Intent and by Brian Hunt and really like them for sparring. These plastic wasters feel much more like steel when winding than do wasters. Members of the Dallas/Ft. Worth ARMA study group own several. I currently own a plastic dussack from With Intent, its feel and handling is nice and natural (can't say it's historical since there are no historical dussacks to compare it to).

Ran Pleasant
ARMA DFW
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Nylon wasters         Reply with quote

Randall Pleasant wrote:
I currently own a plastic dussack from With Intent, its feel and handling is nice and natural (can't say it's historical since there are no historical dussacks to compare it to).



Ran,
See below. Happy



 Attachment: 22.93 KB
Dussack.jpg
circa 1520

Happy

ChadA

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Randall Pleasant




Location: Flower Mound, Texas
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Nylon wasters         Reply with quote

Chad

Thanks. I've heard a couple of people talk about the metal one not being a dussack, but something else. I don't know enough to say one way or the other but it sure looks like one (first time I've seen a picture of it). Has anyone you know of been able to get their hands on it?

Again, thanks.

Ran Pleasant
ARMA DFW
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Nylon wasters         Reply with quote

Randall Pleasant wrote:
Chad

Thanks. I've heard a couple of people talk about the metal one not being a dussack, but something else. I don't know enough to say one way or the other but it sure looks like one (first time I've seen a picture of it). Has anyone you know of been able to get their hands on it?

Again, thanks.

Ran Pleasant
ARMA DFW


The publication I found it in, Illustriertes Lexikon der hieb- Stich-Waffen by Jan Sach, calls it a Dussack (or the German equivalent). I haven't been able to get my hands on this museum piece nor has anyone else I know. Happy

Happy

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Felix R.




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PostPosted: Thu 25 Oct, 2007 12:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

We are using those longsword feruzza.com wasters at class now, they seem very promisisng. The point of balance is quite close to the cross for my taste though.
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Anthony Densmore




Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: 21 Dec 2006

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PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry for the bump.

I saw this thread yesterday, and something occured to me during the intervening time.

Has anyone has the opportunity to compare any of the nylon wasters in the OP to products from Realistic Sparring Weapons?

The nylon wasters are a little pricier than the RSW items, but not unreasonably so.

Thus, I am curious to know how the two technologies compare.
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anthony Densmore wrote:
Has anyone has the opportunity to compare any of the nylon wasters in the OP to products from Realistic Sparring Weapons?


Hi Anthony,
The RSWs made by Lance Chan are fine for free fencing, but really aren't very good for standard training. They aren't realistic enough, particularly when the blades bind. I have not used the "Expert Grade" swords, which I have heard good things about as bouting tools, but I suspect for regular training they likely will have similar problems.

I think between the padded swords and the nylon wasters, the nylon ones behave a little bit more realistically, which means that they are more suited for drills. The padded swords are a little safer for free fencing.

Personally, I'm not very crazy about the nylon wasters I've handled. They're okay, and I don't think there's anything wrong with using them, but I don't really think they're all that spectacular. I'd rather train with something more realistic (a steel blunt, which these days can be found at a similar price range), and if I want to free fence with minimal protection (that is to say, if I want to free fence with something other than steel) then I'd prefer something safer such as the RSWs or a modified shinai.

It comes down to how your training is set up.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


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Steven H




Location: Boston
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Anthony Densmore wrote:
Has anyone has the opportunity to compare any of the nylon wasters in the OP to products from Realistic Sparring Weapons?

. . . then I'd prefer something safer such as the RSWs or a modified shinai.

It comes down to how your training is set up.


Hello,

I'd been wondering about this. The nylon hits harder than a shinai.

That's a problem for me. Because I need control to use a steel safely. And the steel is a very accurate simulator. And I need control with the nylon and it's a less accurate simulator. And the steel costs about the same.

<shrug> That leaves me with no reason to try nylon.

-Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steven H wrote:
Hello,

I'd been wondering about this. The nylon hits harder than a shinai.

That's a problem for me. Because I need control to use a steel safely. And the steel is a very accurate simulator. And I need control with the nylon and it's a less accurate simulator. And the steel costs about the same.

<shrug> That leaves me with no reason to try nylon.

-Steven


Personally, I'm on the same page as you. As I said, I think the nylon wasters are okay, but as you said: They require control to use, just as steel does, but steel is a better simulator. The nylon wasters I handled also did not handle like a sword at all. If they were much cheaper, I'd say they'd be worth it as a start up trainer, but at the current price I just don't care for them.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Micha Hofmann




Location: Bonn, Germany
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Nov, 2007 8:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I also agree. The nylons feel light and are very fast, but they are morde dangerous than a shinai when used with force. Given the low cost, I might use them for "armored" sparring ( wearing a mask + hockey/ motocross protection ), but I prefer blunt steel, especially in the bind.

They're more "sword-like" than shinai, though.
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Steven H




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Nov, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
The nylon wasters I handled also did not handle like a sword at all. If they were much cheaper, I'd say they'd be worth it as a start up trainer, but at the current price I just don't care for them.


Which ones did you try and in what way did they not handle like right?

Thanks,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Nov, 2007 4:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steven H wrote:
Which ones did you try and in what way did they not handle like right?

Thanks,
Steven


I'm not sure, but I believe they were the "With Intent" wasters. Could be wrong about that, though. They basically felt very light, with the balance point very close to the cross. To put it bluntly, they felt like plastic swords.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


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Martin Wallgren




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PostPosted: Mon 05 Nov, 2007 2:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A slight problem I had tsting the ones with steel pommel and cross now on Swordfish was. They are dagerous to fight with in ringen am swerde. Got a hole in my arm from a crossguard.
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Brian Hunt





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PostPosted: Wed 07 Nov, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi all,

since I am one of the makers of Nylon Wasters listed, I thought I would weigh in on this thread.

Personally I don't like aluminum swords or shinai much (nothing against those that use them), not even the modified shinai being used by many different groups. However, I really like nylon wasters (otherwise I wouldn't sell them). Everything I sell I use in my own training as well. I prefer the Nylon wasters over wood wasters (something I used to make, but now that I have a hard time getting decent hickory I no longer do so). I like the way they feel, and the way they bind. Also, I have gone against others with Nylon wasters about as hard as I would with a shinai, they sting more than shinai and do hit a little harder but I do not find myself needing the control that I would need when I spar with my Albion blunts or even with wood.

As for weight, my Nylon Longsword does weigh in on the light side for a long sword at 2 lbs 7 oz. However, that does put it into an average 2 to 4 lb weight range found with historic longswords. Heck, I have held a couple of replica longsword sharps that were lighter than my Nylon longsword. The balance point on my longsword is 6 inches in front of the cross, for comparison sake, the balance point on my Albion Lichtenauer is 3 1/2 inches in front of the cross and it weighs in at 3 lb 5 oz.

As for With Intent's by Eric Winkler, I have one of his longswords with a pear shaped pommel and I also like it a lot. It weighs in at 2 lb 3 oz and balances at 5 inches in front of the cross.

Currently I prefer to train with Nylon wasters and steel for both drills, solo practice, and sparring. I also do some padded weapon sparring. I really like how Nylon handles for drills compared to wood. I also prefer the durability of plastic over wood. Some of the drawbacks with nylon are a lot of the same drawbacks already found when using a waster - no matter how good it is or how well it handles, it isn't a steel sword.

Of course, like a lot of things in life, different people are going to prefer different types of tools in their training arsonal than others. I happen to prefer paddeds, plastic, and steel (both blunt and sharp) for my training needs over other choices.

Take my opinion for whatever it is worth to you.

All the best.

Brian Hunt

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