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R D Moore




Location: Portland Oregon
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sat 18 Aug, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: replacing a grip         Reply with quote

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and I need to start this by stating how impressed I am with everyone's knowledge and experience here. I'm proud to be associated with you. The reason I'm writing is to ask you where I can find information on rebuilding the hilt on an MRL side sword I've aquired, It has a ball type pommel that I'm sure is screwed and glued to a rat tail tang and I don't know how to remove it without twisting off the threaded end of the tang. I'd like to cover a wood core with twisted wire. I can cut, shape and inlet the core, but I can't seem to find any information about removing the pommel or how to start and finish the wire wrap. By "finish" I mean tying off the "bitter end." Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
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J. Pav




Location: NJ
Joined: 05 Oct 2006

Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat 18 Aug, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, when it comes to remiving the pommel, there are options depending on the situation.

Some of the MRL models are peened. If this is the case, a small steel button will be visible on the bottom of the tang. This will have to be filed if you plan to remove it.

If nothing is visible, wrap it in heavy leather, put it in a vise, and carefully turn. This will unscrew the pommel.


Now, if it's peened, and you don't want to remove it(a huge hassle, especially considering you'll have to re-peen it), you can cut off the handle, and chisel off any epoxy. Create a new core out of two halves, shaped as you wish, and epoxy the two halves onto the tang. This is pretty much how Albion does their hilts, if I recall correctly. Then apply the twisted wire.
This isn't possible if you want ferrules, though.

Either way, get some pictures so we can visualize what model you have.
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R D Moore




Location: Portland Oregon
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages
Reading list: 11 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 425

PostPosted: Sat 18 Aug, 2007 8:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Pav wrote:
Well, when it comes to remiving the pommel, there are options depending on the situation.

Some of the MRL models are peened. If this is the case, a small steel button will be visible on the bottom of the tang. This will have to be filed if you plan to remove it.

If nothing is visible, wrap it in heavy leather, put it in a vise, and carefully turn. This will unscrew the pommel.


Now, if it's peened, and you don't want to remove it(a huge hassle, especially considering you'll have to re-peen it), you can cut off the handle, and chisel off any epoxy. Create a new core out of two halves, shaped as you wish, and epoxy the two halves onto the tang. This is pretty much how Albion does their hilts, if I recall correctly. Then apply the twisted wire.
This isn't possible if you want ferrules, though.

Either way, get some pictures so we can visualize what model you have.


J. Pav,

Sorry about the post with no pictures but I don't have a digital camera yet. Removing the pommel sounds like a chore I don't want to tackle. Maybe the best thing to do is remove the leather and shape the wood core to my liking, seal it with a coat of super glue, then wrap the wire. Should I run a tag end of wire down the core to the cross and then wrap up around the tag toward the pommel ? How would I secure the other end of the wire?
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J. Pav




Location: NJ
Joined: 05 Oct 2006

Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat 18 Aug, 2007 8:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I'm assuming it's peened then. If it's only screed on, it's seriously easy.

As for the wood core, your idea might work. Don't use superglue though. You'll want the wood to be a little more forgiving on the hand, as the superglue is brittle and inflexible. I don't think it'll take the shock as well. Not to mention the wire will want to skate off it. I, personally, use Tung Oil which is available at most hardware stores. That should work perfectly. stabilizes the wood, and doesnt make it rock hard.

Now, if you're not removing the pommel, wire-wrapping is gonna be difficult. Normally, the ends of the wire are tucked into the tip-ends of the handle, giving a nice, clean, seamless appearance. If you can unscrwe the pommel, definately do it. If you can't, you'll have to drill small holes in each end of the handle.
Insert the wire into the first hole, and TIGHTLY wrap the hilt, cut to length, and insert the end into the other whole, so as to show minimal wood. You might even want to stain the wood black first, so it doesnt show as much.

Maybe someone else will have more to say. I've only done one partial wire-wrapping, and the handle was off the tang when I did it.
In this image, you can kinda see where the wire runs off the end. I wish I could get more detailed shots, showing the actual way the wire ended, but I think you get the idea.
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R D Moore




Location: Portland Oregon
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages
Reading list: 11 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 425

PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 10:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Pav wrote:
Well, I'm assuming it's peened then. If it's only screed on, it's seriously easy.

As for the wood core, your idea might work. Don't use superglue though. You'll want the wood to be a little more forgiving on the hand, as the superglue is brittle and inflexible. I don't think it'll take the shock as well. Not to mention the wire will want to skate off it. I, personally, use Tung Oil which is available at most hardware stores. That should work perfectly. stabilizes the wood, and doesnt make it rock hard.

Now, if you're not removing the pommel, wire-wrapping is gonna be difficult. Normally, the ends of the wire are tucked into the tip-ends of the handle, giving a nice, clean, seamless appearance. If you can unscrwe the pommel, definately do it. If you can't, you'll have to drill small holes in each end of the handle.
Insert the wire into the first hole, and TIGHTLY wrap the hilt, cut to length, and insert the end into the other whole, so as to show minimal wood. You might even want to stain the wood black first, so it doesnt show as much.

Maybe someone else will have more to say. I've only done one partial wire-wrapping, and the handle was off the tang when I did it.
In this image, you can kinda see where the wire runs off the end. I wish I could get more detailed shots, showing the actual way the wire ended, but I think you get the idea.


Nice work! I read your reply to another reader about inlaying and I like what you have done. The pommel isn't peened-there are absolutely no discernable edges or borders that would iindicate this, no polishing marks either. I'm going to try to remove the pommel. And I may copy your work a bit. I really like the partial wire wrap you've done. In tying fishing flies the technique is called "ribbing." So, I'm going to go get some tung oil, fine steel wire, a block of appropriate wood, some leather and go to work. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. I like what you've done.
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J. Pav




Location: NJ
Joined: 05 Oct 2006

Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks. There are a few things I could've done better, but I'm pleased with the result.


A few more tips:

If you're doing twisted-wire like I did, don't use too heavy guage of wire, then again, don't use something too thin. And using something with a nice contrast adds a nice bit of detail, and yet isn't distracting on the whole. I chose two strands of 19ga copper wire, with 1 strand of 20ga stainless. I forget where I saw it, but I fell in love with it instantly.
When twisting, make sure to have enough length. MY first run turned out short.
It's really annoying how the wires tangle, but keep them DEAD-ON parallel and EQUAL before twisting. I used a bolt, and a washer with three holes drilled into it for the wires. Thread the ends, and put the other ends in a vise. Don't spin TOO fast. Go slow and even, so the wires twist nice and uniform throughout.

When applying the suede under-wrap, and then the black top-grain over-wrap, I simply used Tandy leather-cement. It's pretty good stuff, even when bonding to wood.

Possibly the most important tip: when applying Tung Oil, use gloves. Even cheapo plastic gloves that come in packages of hundreds. That stuff is a pain to wash off your skin, and kills off skin cells. I ended up with dead skin all over my finger tips three times before I realized what was causing it.


Other than that, I wish you the best of luck!

Oh, and remember to wrap the pommel in heavy leather, so as not to mar the finish when you're removing it!
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R D Moore




Location: Portland Oregon
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages
Reading list: 11 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 425

PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I copy. Tally Ho!
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