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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 7:41 am    Post subject: Update on the Kern, Doge and Condottierre         Reply with quote

We have waxes for these three models, and will be molding and casting them soon.

We still have some blade programming work to finish on the Doge.


Kern


Doge


Condottierre

Best,

Howy

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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Really Nice, Howy!

Isnt the doge's finger guard...thing...a little small? I don't know, I can imagine that being a little uncomfortable when you add the wood/leather grip that will take up even more room.

Great job though, they look amazing!
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I really like the Kern, I must have missed the s curved pommel in looking at the original sketch. At this rate I am never going to be able to decide on ym next Albion purchase! Razz
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Jean Henri Chandler




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 9:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Arledge wrote:
I really like the Kern, I must have missed the s curved pommel in looking at the original sketch. At this rate I am never going to be able to decide on ym next Albion purchase! Razz


Wow I second that. There is something so cool too about the combination of the steel with that blue material you are using to shape the guards. Are they cast? or does some milling machine read the shape you create?

BD

EDIT: Cast, sorry I missed that. Eek!

I like all three but especially the Kern and the Condottieri, the latter reminds me of that one sword from the arsenal at Alexandria... (?)

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Michael Clark




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 9:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Praise the lord and pass the steel! I was starting to get a little worried when you introduced the Machiavelli, another XIX Type sword, but have only one completed thus far. Glad to know my desired Kern is on its way.

About that, though... Is that ring pommel going to be a bit wide? Or is that necessary for the proper balance of the weapon?
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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Clark wrote:
Praise the lord and pass the steel! I was starting to get a little worried when you introduced the Machiavelli, another XIX Type sword, but have only one completed thus far. Glad to know my desired Kern is on its way.

About that, though... Is that ring pommel going to be a bit wide? Or is that necessary for the proper balance of the weapon?


Hi Michael!

I'll leave it to Peter to answer the width question, but here is a straight front view that will show everything in proportion...



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Howy

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 10:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don't you guys think Peter would have done his homework before designing these? Happy Give him some credit...

There is a lot of variety to Irish ring-hilt swords. Please see this thread for more info:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=5494

Happy

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Michael Clark




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad,
Of course! You're right, and I don't mean to take anything away from the design, nor Peter's development. I just found myself cocking my head in curiosity, as it looked somewhat bulkier, however, thanks to Howard's last picture, I can tell it works out quite perfectly.

Howard,
Ah, if that isn't a beautiful sight, I'd best be blind. These last three swords are starting to look to become some of the most artistic of the NG line! Thank you for updating us on these beauties!
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

All of those look great, but I must say that the Doge really appeals to me! Out of curiosity, since these slightly complex hilts often had wire wrapping in period, will that be an option (as it is on the Munich)?
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Doge:
The hilt is just about as big as those you see on preserved originals. On the repro market developed hilts are often exaggerated in size. Perhaps it is this that makes you think it is small?


The Kern:
One thing all the different shapes and versions Irish hilts have in common is that their proportions are not completely sweet and in harmony. Some did remark on this with the Gallowglass and the Chieftain as well. It is very much an intended effect. Without it the hilts would be less true in cultural style to the originals.
The rings on ring hilts do come in different sizes and shapes as well. Some are oval lenght wise, others are oval cross wise. Some are very thin others are, if not beefy, so at least a bit more meaty.
The Kern is not a copy of any single specific sword, but a homage to the Irish Ring Hilt.


Last edited by Peter Johnsson on Wed 06 Jun, 2007 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
All of those look great, but I must say that the Doge really appeals to me! Out of curiosity, since these slightly complex hilts often had wire wrapping in period, will that be an option (as it is on the Munich)?


With current mounting methods it is not possible to do ferrules at the ends of a wire wrapped grip and you ned to do this on these grips to get it right.
It is something we will have to incorporate on coming models, so it will be solved.
Presently it is not an option, unfortunately.

In the case of the Doge (and the Machiavelli) it is not a disqualifying adjustment as originals are preserved with leather covered wood grips.

We will se what is possible in this department further down the road.
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Henri Chandler wrote:
...I like all three but especially the Kern and the Condottieri, the latter reminds me of that one sword from the arsenal at Alexandria... (?)


You are quite right.
The hilt of the Condottiere is heavily influenced by the "Alexandria" sword, but with a different pommel.

The XIX single hand blade of the NG line is slightly bigger than the famous "Alexandria" sword (wich is a very neat and handy little sword weighing no more than 780 grams).
I wanted to have a blade that was a little bit more powerful to use in different versions.
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Adam Simmonds




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

wow,

those are beautfiful lines, balance of grace and strength,

cool to see some slightly more complex hilts being born, who knows, maybe some day you guys will produce a slender 16thC. side sword or 17thC walloon hilt... oh the possibilties Wink

cheers, adam s.
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David Sutton




PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not normally a fan of complex hilts (well anything more complex than a cross guard Big Grin ) but the Doge is really growing on me. Well thats another one to add to the 'I want one' list............. along with practically the rest of Albion's line up!!! Laughing Out Loud
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Michael Olsen




PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Excellent. Simply excellent in every sense of the word.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 6:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm really, really drawn to these. I particularly like the Doge. Very, very nice.
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 6:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I too am very impressed with the waxes for the Doge. Something about the crisp lines and geometry of that guard are truly stunning. I do have a question about the blade, however. Will the single handed type XIX blades be a similar width as the Gallowglass blade? Just out of personal preference I found the Gallowglass blade to be a bit narrower than I like. I honestly don't know a lot about XIX blades, and I don't have any of my books handy, but are there beefier examples out there? I would find a beefy XIX just awesome if it has historical precedent. Maybe something for a custom project someday, who knows?

Thanks,

Kenton
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 8:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to chime in to say that the Doge is really cool. I never thought I'd like it when I saw the drawings but after seeing the waxes I realize that I was mistaken! Great job again Albion! I really can't wait to see these models finished!
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kenton Spaulding wrote:
I too am very impressed with the waxes for the Doge. Something about the crisp lines and geometry of that guard are truly stunning. I do have a question about the blade, however. Will the single handed type XIX blades be a similar width as the Gallowglass blade? Just out of personal preference I found the Gallowglass blade to be a bit narrower than I like. I honestly don't know a lot about XIX blades, and I don't have any of my books handy, but are there beefier examples out there? I would find a beefy XIX just awesome if it has historical precedent. Maybe something for a custom project someday, who knows?

Thanks,

Kenton


The Doge blade is similar to te single hand XIX, although the ricasso area is different with three fullers and then of course the lug at the back. To make this work the cross section is changed, with a slightly narrower midrib, or flat. For the dynamic balance of the blade (the way it moves) it will not mean a tremendous difference. Visually it will be quite distinct.

The single hand XIX is actually a tiny bit broader in the blade than the hand and half blade. I am not sure it is enough of a difference to meet your expectations though.
Thie first priority of these blades was to make them agile, not beefy.
Kenton, I must ask if you have seen the gallowglass in person,, or if you are basig your judgement from photos? It makes for a difference you know. It would be like judging a type XVII from the outline only, disregarding the thickness of the blade.

There are XIX blades that are wider, giving another visual impression. These are also normally thinner, so the difference in mass need not be very big.
If these XIX swords go well, there might be reason to add a broader one in the line up.
First I think I would like to add one that is *narrower* and longer for single hand use, to allow 16th C swords with developed hilts.
Perhaps there is also room for a borader one in single hand or hanfd and half use? It will depend on how eagerly the market receives these.
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yup Peter, I actually have gotten to play with, even cut with the Gallowglass. I must say, it is a beautiful sword, the hilt and blade are both beautiful, just a bit narrow for my aestetic tastes. I guess I am just too manly for it Big Grin

As for judging a sword by it's photos, you are certainly correct though, and the type XVII is the perfect example. Before getting my hands on the Landgraf at the NYC custom knife show, I was not overly impressed by the design. After holding it, and viewing it live...it is now my favorite of the entire Albion line, including the Museum Line.

Also, I had totally forgotten about the lug on the Doge blade and was thinking it shared the same blade as the Kern. That makes the sword all the more compelling.

Kenton
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